Speaker 1Hey, what's up to the pointless nerds? It's your boy Chris. I've got a friend of mine on here today, and she's got purple hair And if you ever been to a trade show and seen someone walk around with purple everywhere, maybe purple sequins Purple backwards hats or husband hanging out. It's Jimmy key. That's who you know, she is she has coined the purple The color purple in the trades. You can't miss her and I'll bet you I'll bet you if you're thinking somebody asked you know asked you one of the listeners say Hey Who do you know that does social media in the home serves the space? I can just about bet you that the answer is probably going to be Jimmy K. you've created name for yourself. Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 0Thank you. I appreciate that. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1Yeah, founder of Keyhart Marketing. Um, and you know what? I've known you for a little bit now and I've kind of watched the business grow and I talked to you early early on in the business and I kind of seen you do in your thing. And um, and now you like, you I've had, we just came off of Rhinox. Now you're putting on your first event, the growth conference
Speaker 0March 30th to April 1st.
Speaker 1March 30th to April 1st, down in San Antonio, which I think is where you live, right? Do you live to me?
Speaker 0It is. Yeah, I figured bring it close to home.
Speaker 1Listen, I do Rhinox and Phoenix. Yeah, because I live here. It's already complicated enough. Like, let's not overcomplicate it by putting in a different location. Right, so hey, I know it's really close to you. But I'm assuming that you guys still have tickets and stuff like that. Maybe let our listeners know if you do I'm assuming you do where they if they can grab it real quick before you know everybody waits to last minute to purchase tickets I know how this goes so yeah, maybe just let the maybe let the listeners know where they can get tickets
Speaker 0Yeah, we still have tickets to growth or the growth dash experience.com. So it should be pretty incredible. We have some great speakers, including it prolific. It's going to be there. That car's title is one of our speakers.
Speaker 1So you have a bunch of great speakers on there. Obviously, I know like 90% of I think everybody there. I might know everybody now. I think about it. But Kudos to you for putting on something, you know, great in leveraging, you know, your own talent. Hopefully you're going to be doing some social media specific stuff while you're there. But yeah, I'm always interested in this. I think this is a, uh, I've tried to tackle this. I think I told you this, Jim, when I, when you first start talking is I tried at right now. Obviously, I'm not there any longer, but I tried when I was at right now to build out a social media marketing team to serve the contractors. and I just never felt like it did what I wanted it to do and maybe it's because I'm a poor leader of it. I don't know, maybe it's maybe it's all my fault. But I didn't know, I guess I, I was never a fan of like cookie cutter graphics and like the same heat pumps and all sorts of bullshit that nobody cares about. Like I really was like And then what mattered to me more was like, prove it to me. Can you prove it to me on that we just did this and it delivered X amount of customers to our X amount of leads to our customers. Can you prove that to me, please? And I just never felt like we never got to that point. And I went through three leaders in that way.
Speaker 0Yeah.
Speaker 1And this is the external team doing it internal is easy. Like doing the internal self is fun because we're growing stuff. Yeah, because I have You know, for the podcast, like we have our own people do, like we are the talent. There's no cookie cut or anything. There's no pictures, there's no whatever. It's like now it's just like we're using all this stuff. But it's a human being who's actually inside the four walls doing it. Yeah, I think this is where I think it can get complicated because if a funny contractor does not have that human being who wants to do it or can do it. Well then what and then can they end and then should they still do something like there's just so many questions I have around it and I couldn't ever do it a lot easier if I could just want to bought you and rolled you into the business but it would have been better for you not you Yeah, and then you would have left so then we're ready for you That's why I'm saying, actually, I'm so glad that it didn't pan out. So, but the reason this is, I believe in it, and Chad and I have our roofing business rubber roofing and we started leveraging social media and we got the technicians or the sales guys and all of stuff involved and stuff. but like it works because it's it's we want people to see who we are behind the scenes and my cares about like nobody wants to have to have a roofer right like they don't want to so like let's have fun with it but I want to walk through some of these things with you so that way those listening are like okay whether I use you know Jen or not like just give me some you know some tips and then you're gonna find out okay this is complicated I should probably just use Jen and call today Yeah, that's just, but you're probably going to be able to go through a lot of this stuff, you know, at that growth experience because, you know, it's a couple of days of you being able to pour into them maybe maybe a little bit more tactical than we can get on this episode, but what I'm going to do my best to try and dig in as much as I can. You okay, you're ready? All right. Yeah, let's do it. So let's do this first. Like, right out the gate, I don't want to assume that everybody just knows who you are. Because if they're not big on social media, then they might know who you are. And they might not know who you are. So maybe just give the listeners like a quick little high level background of why you're even, you know, the one to talk about social media marketing, just share a little bit of your background, Jen.
Speaker 0Okay, so thanks for having me again. I'm Jen, I own key heart marketing. Key heart marketing specializes in social media for home service companies. I got lucky and was introduced to a plumber in 2021 and we were probably, we liked to think we were one of the first residential home service companies using TikTok for a business, in a business standpoint. So we were, creating content for the homeowner on TikTok and that people started to see what we were doing and she was able to refer me to people and that's kind of like how I got into it but early on in my social media career I just realized that social media was super necessary for business owners but not easy to execute on on a consistent basis just because of what it required it like you have to do it every day, every week, every month and as a business owner you get caught up in all the a week or a month, it always ends up falling off. So I recognized really early that it was something that business owners needed it. And then like I said, I just kind of got lucky falling into this industry.
Speaker 1Well, hang on, you gave me the elevator pitch. That's not what I'm looking for. Actually, what I want is what you did before that. Like, did you or was it nothing related whatsoever? You just jumped into the social media game and started figuring it out? Like,
Speaker 0Yeah, well, I actually, I worked in restaurants for 17 years and I was a restaurant manager at a corporate chain for five years, so that helped a lot with like building a business and culture type stuff. When I was, I also am just like naturally a documentary, so I was like in journalism and high school and stuff, but I'm always somebody who was taking pictures of things. Yeah. I bought my whole family tripods because I'm like, you know, you got to put the camera somewhere. So every I don't want to bring it around if I forget it or something. So I just naturally am like a journalist at heart. And I think it just lent itself to social.
Speaker 1Got it. Um, okay. So the. real quick, you mentioned TikTok out the gate. So right now, there's probably some people on here like, I don't even get on TikTok. I'm beyond it. Like, I'm barely on TikTok. But it's because I just, like, if I hop on there, my brain goes, what? I could be doing something better right now than being on the talk. So I've traveled through my bread. Have you ever heard of a book called The Yes, so I read that book recently because I'm going to I'm going to an accountability group with a talk with Tommy mellow and a few of other of our buddies and one of the things was we wonder your topic habits and then go through it. Yeah, and That's a great book for somebody who needs to run social media because you've got to create some habits to be able to continuously record.
Speaker 0Seriously. Yeah.
Speaker 1On non-stop, like it's a great book. But you mentioned TikTok. Now, maybe let's talk about just the mate, like I think you call them the big three on the different platforms because there's so many different social media platforms. And if these guys listen to it, Gary Vee, he'll talk about all kinds of different platforms but in the home services space and the contractor world to you, the big three is what? Facebook and Instagram and TikTok and are you recording different types of content for each of the platforms or is it kind of like the one piece of content and you rolled out the same thing.
Speaker 0Okay, so it depends on what capacity you have. So for what we do we are using the same content across the platforms because there's different people on every platform. We reach different people every time they open up the app. And if we're going to create a video, we might as well put it everywhere where videos are accepted to get in front of the most people. but it works on the different platforms. If you are starting to build out your social media team internally and you have more resources where you can really differ in Shia, all of the platforms are a little bit different with a little bit different audience and a little bit different culture. So you can definitely depending on the resources that you have start to kind of like make a different strategy for each platform.
Speaker 1But I would say most don't. So like maybe it's because I bet you the majority of people on here aren't in that situation, right? So no, right? So yeah, so how do we do like, because you, I mean, yeah, I think that at half of the battle is, well, what do I do? Right.
Speaker 0Yeah.
Speaker 1How am I going to do it? And then what am I like what's the outcome? Like what am I supposed to be like what's the figure? Am I even doing the right thing? So yeah, let's just think about this because I think the majority of listeners right now are going to be in the position where they need to, you know, DFY.
Speaker 0They're not building like a 10 person team. I think so.
UNKNOWNYeah.
Speaker 0Um, so the first thing to do is just start posting and if you were to just start documenting your life, so like getting in the habit of taking a picture or video of whatever it is that you're doing that day and sharing that, that is literally stuff one. Like, it is it. Not edited. It's not overthought. There isn't like a ton of it doesn't need to be perfect. And it's just the goal is for people to know what you do and know who you are. And if you just start to document your life in little ways like that, it's a great place to start. So we have a strategy, but like I don't like if you're not doing anything that's the first thing that you do I'm going to do it right now.
Speaker 1You're ready.
Speaker 0Yeah, let's do it. then you post that.
Speaker 1So I just took a picture of my phone of me interviewing Jen and I'm just going to make a post with it, right? Something so this is what I'm doing right now. So just take a picture. It's as simple as that, right?
Speaker 0Yep.
Speaker 1Okay. I know where to think that's it.
Speaker 0And so depending on where you are in the business, like if you're still out in the field in the truck, that's really easy, right? Because you can take a selfie or. whatever at a job, if you're in the office, behind the scenes at trainings that you're doing at meetings that you're doing at, whatever it is that you're doing that day starts to tell the story of who you are.
Speaker 1What are the septic guys do?
Speaker 0Honestly, gross stuff works really well on social. So, tell the story of what you found. I mean, why it was there. What they should not have done. There's so many things.
Speaker 1That's what the drain cleaning ads, drain cleaning ads always have like the big hair balls and shit like that, like in a, or it's disgusting that they're pulling out. But you're just waiting to see what comes out of the drain.
Speaker 0Yeah, or like rats, trees, they're so much in there. They grow such a thing. Trees, you know, tree roots, like coming to the end. Oh, got it, got it inside of it.
Speaker 1Yeah, got it. Break the sewer lines. Yeah, gotcha. Okay. I love those jobs. Those are great jobs. Okay. So you didn't mention YouTube. I got no why because I felt like the reels do really good.
Speaker 0So what's really interesting right now on Google is Google's indexing videos in two different places. There's like a video feed and a short porn video feed. I'm not seeing very much from YouTube there at all. It's a lot from Facebook Instagram and TikTok, which really surprises me and even off of websites like pulling directly from your website. But I'm not seeing a lot of YouTube and so while it six months ago, I was like, yeah, YouTube and we still post on YouTube because then it's part of Google. So we're still posting on YouTube. We're posting shorts. But it does interest me that while Google is indexing these videos, it's not necessarily pulling from YouTube shorts.
Speaker 1Got it. But are you still kind of a, we just talked about the big three, but that doesn't mean there's, there's obviously more than three. So there's other things that you can do. And yeah, we tried on the podcast to do long-form and a lot of short-form stuff. And the short-form stuff was always the better. It was always best for us. But I get it, because to me that makes sense, like I think about myself as the consumer, who has ADHD, who is not, you know, I have a very short of tension span. So I have to stay interested, which is why it has been difficult for me over the years to read a book, because I brainwonders. Yeah. So, but when I think about short form of video, it's like you almost have like a half a second to keep engaged. You get you to the next second to get you to the next second. It almost kind of feels like you've got to keep in them engaged to get to what. You know, yeah, watch. So, so that's one thing I want I want to talk about on here too is the boring part. It's the boring part to talk about, for I think a lot of people, but it's probably the most important part. And that's like the actual metrics behind this thing, because I think that's what allows you to know what should you continue to do, which ones get in the best engagement, things like that. So yeah, do you have like, do you have like a set, set group of metrics or KPI as you're like, hey, this is how we gauge success with the campaign.
Speaker 0Okay, I feel like you just touched on a whole bunch of different things and then your question was even like a different thing to talk about, but let me put this way.
Speaker 1What are the main metrics or KPIs that matter the most to you?
Speaker 0Okay, so if we're using social media as a place to gain visibility, so we're working to get in front of more people, so that more people know who we are, which is what a lot of organic social is for, so obviously we want that to eventually lead to making more money. But it has to start with people even knowing that you exist it. One of the most important things is that your conscience actually showing up in the news feed or on the on the feed. So what happens is that if you're just posting it a bunch of graphics and stop photos or whatever, like no one's actually seeing it, and that's why you never have any engagement. So if no one's seeing it, it's just a waste of everybody's time and energy. So our number one goal is it reach an engagement. Like the more engagement that a piece of content has, the more reach that we can get out of it. So that's like what we're always looking for is it Is this is our content getting into the new speed. So we use this strategy that it's the three S framework, but it's our social media strategy. And 50% of our content should be content that is meant to get engagement. So that's our showup content. That's content that should be getting us into the new speed. So like not every piece of content is gonna hit, you're gonna put stuff out there that people don't see and that's okay. But we want about 50% of our content to be engaging and showing up for people.
Speaker 1Do you lean into humor that much on anything that you do or give that kind of guidance?
Speaker 0Um, there are some people who are open to it and some people who aren't. And so it's really like it if it works for the company that we're working with, yes, memes used to do really well and they're a little bit harder to work out. Like we kind of took them out of our strategy a lot unless it's a really good one. A video memes work a little bit better. If you can have fun and TikTok trends really lend itself to having fun, if you can add that into your content, that's a really big culture. Show your culture, gets into the new speed, reaches new people, can be really relatable. There's a lot that can come out of that. So if you're willing to kind of push the boundary and be a little bit relaxed in who you are as a business, that helps a lot.
Speaker 1OK, so a couple things. you had said organic so for our listeners it's you can do a paid version of social as well what's kind of like your paper click campaigns but you can do a paid version on social as well and she's talking about organic which is just your normal posts you're not paying anything for that but you still like that's that's got the best cost per lead if you're if you're care about that metric because it's organic posts Yeah, but but two things I would ask you if if I was your customer I would say Will you tell me what's best and then not I would make sure that that's what we're doing so first Sure, this is what I want to do. I would say what am I supposed to do? You know, so yeah That's why I'm asking you that question. I tend to lean into humor for everything because I think it's funny Yeah, and people like the laugh and so so The two things that Gary Vee told me in my time with him. I think I told you had a partnership with him for like 19 to 21 He said, if you can, the two pillars are education or entertainment, and if you could do both combined, it's like the perfect storm. I always thought about that, because I thought about that from when I'm on stage speaking, or if I'm doing a podcast or if I'm doing content, I'm always like, is this educational, is it entertaining? You know, and not that it had to be both every single time, but I always just thought about thought about how do I make this thing like really, really fun. Like entertain to watch if nobody gave a shit about what I do. Like would they want to do to watch a thing?
Speaker 0Right. That's what show content is because nobody does care what you do. Like until they need you, they don't care. And so how can you create content that people do care about? Something that fits in with the new seed? And you're totally right. Like, Yes, like what should you do versus what do I want to do, but not everybody sees that. The other thing I'll say is when it comes to being funny, you have to make sure that the audience that you're trying to reach would find it funny. Because sometimes what you would find funny is not necessarily what the moms in your city would find funny. And so then, you know, if you're creating content that they would not find funny at all, then you're not really reaching your target audience with your content, which could eventually cause a somewhat of an issue.
Speaker 1This is interesting, because I feel like debating you right now on this, because I...
Speaker 0Listen, I know it's gray. I'm just saying, from a, from a, like, yes, then you could reach other people, but in, like, having a lot of visibility versus a little bit of visibility can be super beneficial and it can get you other opportunities. I get all of that. I'm just saying it's also important to try to create content that your customer would appreciate.
Speaker 1Sure, who is to say what they appreciate, right? It gets, it makes them the human behavior is the human behavior, right? So you can't say, oh, it would work in this market, but not in this market. Maybe if you're in the south or you're in the Bible Build or something like that, you don't put out some content that might go too far. I know I've, when I've early in my speaking career, I've always been the same type of speaker. Um, doesn't land as well in the Bible belt. So I had to modify how I would speak. Um, to not offend anyone. Um, so, but I think with, like, overall content just in general, it's, I don't, I always get nervous about people over thinking it, right? Like, oh, I don't want to upset this structure. I don't want to upset that. So then they just do nothing and then I'm afraid that people listening are going to feel like, oh, God, now I don't know. Like, should I do nothing? So when I, I would say, You just tell me if you're the professional you tell me what to do and I tell me what's best because I think that in my opinion the outcome of all of this is to one to get attention. That's what we're trying to do, get attention, but to get customers like that's the game. Like we're trying to accomplish here is how do we get some of the attention to get customers? And that's where my heads always been with whether it's organic or paid either one. Pades like the cheater way of getting it and is even the right type of customer. I say, do you know, do you, do you even do paid media? I have no clue if you do paid social.
Speaker 0Yeah, we do. We do paid social.
Speaker 1So then, so then are you measuring metrics differently based paid versus organic?
Speaker 0Yeah, our paid team is different than our organic team. All of them just because it's such a different type of content and the goals are much different. But what we're looking at at the highest level is cost per lead because and then from there We don't have control over booking rate because it's not something that we do internally, but we do educate our clients on how to increase that booking rate because it's just a different game. It's not like a Google lead, like no one's searching for this solution. You're putting it an offer in front of people while they're zoning out on social media.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's it's creative marketing not like direct because we're trying to create interest when there's no intent and and that's where the education entertainment comes in I agree listen like forever, you know, the whole time at Rhino it was always about. cost for lead, you know, I needed to make sure I knew what the cost for me was for like a real legit opportunity, but I always tracks the booking rate. Always because there's a accountability on both of our ends, so like to use the listener is that like, Jen or you just create all these videos and stuff and put it out there and like, okay, cool, it works. No, no, you have some like lifting on your and you have to do it too. And that might just be something as simple as answering your phone or responding faster, you know, or replying faster, The pain points and the response times are lack of response.
Speaker 0That's a big one. Like we are this year, we're only doing ads. If you have an automation in place, we're only doing ads if we're fully educating. We have an educational little series that we're taking you through. And then making sure that the team internally knows what the offers are and how to convert them. Because it's crazy. We were just looking at one of our clients who has it. I can't remember, maybe 40, 60% booking rate, like, one of the highest that we have. And so I was like, how do you, how are you booking all these leads and like, no one else is? And he pays them per book's lead. And so that's what they do is they literally just book all the leads, whereas like some of our other clients, it's more passive. Like, oh, well, I tried to call this person and they didn't respond or they said that they wanted something else or they, weren't having this issue or you know like and so it's it's interesting how different your internal processes can impact these these leads that are coming through on Facebook and that's really for everyone who's ever said Facebook ads don't work they do but it's just a different type of system.
Speaker 1So guys share my experience with you on Facebook ads.
Speaker 0Yeah.
Speaker 1As somebody who's tracked everything all the time, um, the thing I was struggling with, and this is, and this is assuming we knew how to run Facebook ads properly. Okay.
Speaker 0Right.
Speaker 1So I'm not saying I am. If I did, I wouldn't have figured the team out, but I didn't. But I understand now, but I understand consumer buying habits. And so I would just put out ads that would say, 79, you know, you're finishing installation as low as $7.00 a month or something like that. I'm basically playing to the monthly amount to set those to get them to take action. And while the lead volume looked great, and the cost really looked great, it was, they couldn't afford to rent that.
Speaker 0Yeah, that's a hard offer because of that.
Speaker 1So I was like dang it man, like this was looking really good until they're like, hey, like these aren't closing and I'm like, oh, okay, so that's not the answer is every time these guys roll track out to the home, it costs money for them to not sell them like that's not good. So so technically you could say yeah, yeah, I got you the lead, but it really wasn't it was it really wasn't a good one like and and oh, so you would change it to 89 to 99 like you would just keep changing the numbers if It's just too risky. So I just wonder, you probably have an idea of if it's not if of an offer that works best and it you're mainly HVC plumbing electrical right in the industry. Okay, you probably have an idea if they're wanting to put an offer out there of where they should like what they should do. I'm hoping that you do. And maybe you don't need to do that. Maybe you were thinking about it all wrong. Or maybe that's just a page strategy. That's just a straight page strategy with them. And it's like, I think maybe let's just talk about that for a second. I'm selfishly asking those questions. I'm thinking through this. When somebody comes to you and says, hey, Jen, I got five grand a month. I want to spend with you on paid on paid social media. What do we do? Is that how would you give them the budget to they come to you with the budget? Is it a mixture of both and then like, what do you do? Like, maybe just walk me through what that looks like.
Speaker 0So as far as budget goes, we start off like $5,200 a day. You could spend depending on your market. Did you have $5,200 a day?
Speaker 1Did you have $2,200 a day?
Speaker 050.
Speaker 1Oh, 50.
Speaker 0Two.
Speaker 1Uh-huh. God.
Speaker 0The good place to start. I was like, you know, the thing I just want to say too about Facebook ads right now is they're really heavy on creative. And so you have to have a video and pictures that match the offer, that's going to make a really big difference. And so we've stopped running ads if we don't have great creative because they're just not performing as well. As far as offer goes it, we have some clients that are doing really, really well and continue to do well with tuna buffers. I know that some people don't like to go that direction, but that's a direction that we see a pretty high ROI on consistently across markets and across seasons.
Speaker 1So the win is getting in the home.
Speaker 0correct, right? And having a customer, a new customer.
Speaker 1Yeah. And then it's there. Ultimately, this is when it's you, the listener, the contractor's job, sell it, like right, and to get up so that way, you can continuously go back in that home with their membership or whatever.
Speaker 0Yeah, exactly. And we continue to see an ROI in it. That's it. I understand that it's a lost sweeter, lost lead, but you can make money on them.
Speaker 1So are you tracking this for your customers? Like,
Speaker 0As much as we can, we have eyeballs on some stuff and not on other, and it's unfortunate, but that's just the way that it is.
Speaker 1But you know, like you can get into service Titan and look at the lead attribution and revenue and stuff like that, are you have that capability or something that you want to do or do you guys do it already now?
Speaker 0Usually, we get reporting monthly from our clients if we can. That's more so. Got it. How we get it.
Speaker 1Got it. I've always just struggle with like, do you call it branding or do you call it legion? And I'll tell you, I know. Here's how I've thought and you can tell me your disagree and I would completely understand. I legit think it's social media is a branding play and we hope we get some legion from it. That's kind of like the way I've always positioned it.
Speaker 0You know, I have it, I mean, we have a client in Florida who Facebook is his biggest lead source, like he about 40% of his revenue came from Facebook last year. So it's not impossible, but you have to treat it as like that type of lead source, like he has people who are dedicated to these Facebook ads on a daily basis. So it's just a different, like that's what you're using. That's, it's different than just casually running some ads. Maybe you get some leads off of it. Maybe they convert. There's different ways to do it.
Speaker 1We had a guy on here from Florida. I wonder if it's the same. I wonder if he's one of your customers. And he, they were great. Can you say who that customer is?
Speaker 0Fast here.
Speaker 1Oh, no, it's not him. Damn. I remember that guy we had on your guys. That was a climate control or something like that. It was where a guy does, they do all the little fun TikTok dances and stuff like that.
Speaker 0with Derek. Yes. Yeah. No, I Derek's awesome.
Speaker 1Yeah. He's got like his guys dancing like doing all the fun stuff. I was like, he's like, it was pretty funny.
Speaker 0I know in a lot of what he does, it not all of it, but a lot of it are TikTok trends that they just do and they do him consistently and that's they do a little bit of educational videos. But that's what I'm saying. Like, you can that's fun. He leans into it. And it, um, it's, it works for him.
Speaker 1Well, and so this is going to sound like probably silly to you, but I didn't know that I don't know the trends, right? So like I have no idea of the art. So one, I had one person tell me one time like, oh, I just follow this one Instagram page, just one page and then they put out all the trees. Like they show all the trends. And I was like, oh, yeah. So you can just go one place. I have no clue. I'm like six months behind on trends and then they're not trends anymore.
Speaker 0Yeah, I mean, we watch them. We have some AI tools that watch them. Our team, like, weekly, get puts trend ideas and stuff, and then we send them to our clients.
Speaker 1Well, and then you have to go, like, kind of fast on it too, right? Because it's only a trend.
Speaker 0We should leave it. Something, yeah. Some of them are bigger than other ones, and they last a little bit longer. And some of them, you really got a, they're really niche, and you got to get on and fast. But a lot of them are, like,
Speaker 1Do you remember the first trend was the thing I ever remember, the first time I did was the Harlem Shake or it was the Harlem Shake? Is that what that thing was called? It was like, where by just was like working at your office and the next thing you know, one of the music part changes and then everybody's like dancing to it and they're all like, oh yeah, this is a Harlem Shake.
Speaker 0I remember that. I, that doesn't sound right, but I don't, I think I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1I think it's a Harlem Shake now it's gonna bug me, but that was like to me the first time I ever did anything that was trendy That's funny probably like in 2021 It's a Harlem Shake. No. Yeah, Harlem That's it Harlem Shake. Okay, good look at me. There you go. Um, anyway, I I I saw hours up at Rhino like I think it was like maybe last week or something like that I saw a pop-up as a memory. I was like oh my god, it's forever ago
Speaker 0That's fun. And it's fun. It was fun. by a yearly type of situation. So it's not all the time, and sometimes trends pop up. So we do have clients that will send the trends to and they'll do them. And their feedback is like their team just has so much fun with it. They feel like it boosts a morale because they're playing, like you get to do a little bit of play and it's marketing also.
Speaker 1So we, so I think, you know, I'm actually bummed chasel on here, Peter Menzel on here. He's my co-host, obviously, normally on these podcasts, but this was an impromptu episode. Yeah. So we, I was out in Indianapolis a couple of weeks ago, and we were shooting. We were shooting some social media content and some TV commercials, like all what gave basically it was just full on production day. Yeah, which is always fun with Chad because I like to get him out of his comfort zone and that's and he's such a such a good sport But one of the things that we deal with with our ripping businesses are our brand looks very similar to the Peterman Brothers brand on purpose So people are always think that Redbird Roofing stole the Peterim Brothers branding, like we're just trying to copy them. So we had fun with it. We parked the two trucks together and chads in the middle of it. You know what kind of thing? Yep, that's me. Yep, that's me too. Like we're having fun with it.
Speaker 0Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1People know that like he's a part of it, you know, but we lean heavy into like the funny the humor stuff because Chad is like pretty straight-laced. Any time and he's all this commercials in an apple smarker are you know pretty straight Laced now they have a little bit of foam with the humor So I like it whenever he gets a lot of personality out because it's it to me It's like okay, you don't normally see him like this. He's so like straight-laced and put together and then I make you know make him do stupid TikTok trends Yeah, and so we have we have fun with it, but it's also fun when we we got all of our We have all of our employees involved in this last one and this last round and everybody had the best time and it was like it's like good for the culture of your company too I was kind of you know Everybody's like shipping in on the content and that we just made it like we had a fun day out of it. It was pretty cool
Speaker 0Yeah, and not only that, that's how you attract better people to work with you, like they see the type of place that's like willing to let loose a little bit and have a good time and they can see that people are interacting together and a lot of our clients have said over the years that they're able to hire better people because people literally come in and say, hey, we want to work here because of your TikTok.
Speaker 1That's a great point. I'm glad you brought that up because that's the way I kind of looked at even even with Rhino over the years is we, they was such a great recruiting tool because we had so much fun. We did so many things and like we had fun and we always had so many filming everything that we did and our customers, our fans, our community service days or whatever it is, we record everything that way people can say like, okay, cool, yeah, like this looks like a really fun company to go work for.
Speaker 0Right, yeah.
Speaker 1Oh, the good old days.
Speaker 0Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1Okay, so someone transition just a little bit because I think for about 30ishments or so into this thing. You have something, I don't know how much you can or can't share on here and if you want to guide the listeners to like down a certain path you can, but I saw this on your website and it was around the nine ways to get your next sale off social media.
Speaker 0Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 1So, so, I don't need you to give me all nine ways to get your next sale off of social media.
Speaker 0But, and I get honest, I think that is a, that is an old thing that I created, not to say that it wouldn't work anymore, but I don't even really, fully remember.
Speaker 1So, so then let's look at this way. So, number one update your website.
Speaker 0Okay. So, you tell me, what are my nine ways again?
Speaker 1Well, it didn't share it. You actually had to submit the form. It was like a hook. And I'm sure you probably give some. So listen, don't go to the website and click on nice. Anyways, I know, right?
Speaker 0I'm like, I'm ashamed. No, but I'll be honest about my website. It's been in the process of being updated for a year now, which has just been like a crazy long process. And we are, almost at the end of this road in this journey of my website. But we do have a ton of resources for for contractors. We have this social media blueprint, which is like three different freebies in one. It includes it. What does it include? 57 different video ideas. The viral TikTok framework. We've got another one that teaches you what you need to have in your BIOS, which is I think which is what Google is indexing right now is your social media BIOS and that's how it's pulling that content. It also has a shot list that you can give to a videographer of a photographer to come in and seven types of content that we're seeing are working really well on socials. So I do know what it are in those. The nine things I remember that, but I can't quite remember what's on it. That's fine.
Speaker 1I really boils down to what are the resources and are you giving them
Speaker 0I hope no one is, but yeah, we do, we do have those two free resources.
Speaker 1Um, well, then take advantage of it. If it's free, it's for me. You ever heard that before it's free.
Speaker 0And social media, it's also social media stuff. I also, if you go to my website, there's like, there's, if you're like thinking about whether or not you want to work with us, there's two roads. You can go down and one of them is if you are under a million and annual revenue or over a million. And that's not because for any reason, but the investment to work with us is a little bit. Hi, if you're still trying to reach that million dollar mark, if you do that, you get sent this email that's got like every single resource I've ever created along with like podcast that you should check out like all kinds of stuff and then some different stuff from us.
Speaker 1I think it's important to I just want to reiterate on that you said earlier 50 to 100 bucks a day it was called three grand a month So regardless of size of your business that's kind of where it's mostly around the investment so that I think that's really what you care most about Do you actually have what you should invest to max the success potential right?
Speaker 0That's kind of interesting right I mean social media is important at every level Like if you're just starting I tell people like you should be posting on your personal Facebook day every day and your personal Facebook page every day Hey, this is what I'm doing today. Every single person in that network should know what you do because you don't want them to call some random company on Google when you could literally go and get that job yourself. So it's important at every level. It's just like, when can you start investing your your money so that you can get your time back and doing it?
Speaker 1So let me ask you this question. I'm going to pretend like, okay, Jen, all the sounds great. I know I should be doing social media. I don't know if it's organic. If it's paid, if it's all the above, Jen, what should I be doing? Like, and what does it look like when Nate went to my starts to work with you? Like, I'm trying to think, do this again. I'm thinking selfishly. You know, since I own a few different businesses, and it's like, okay, man, I know that we're not doing enough on social and I also know that the company can afford to happen in how social media person at this moment. So there's like, this is when you would leverage a partnership like this. That's true. You know, a relationship like this to do it for us. So. we move forward. What does the next step look like? Like kind of, I want the listeners to understand what the journey looks like so they can say, okay, this is how it's going to go and here's what I'm responsible for.
Speaker 0Yeah. So our journey starts off in the first 30 days with our onboarding and content. So we get to get to know you and learn more about your market and your brand and your company and why you started it and who you are in it and all of those things and then we bring in a videographer and photographer for full day content shoot where we get like. All of the morning stuff and then we get to go out on a job or two so that we have content that we can use over the next three to six months or so. From there, we start off with organic so we no longer start anywhere except for organic and we start building that consistency on Facebook and Instagram Tik Tok and YouTube and then we can start to add in some, some. Facebook ads so at the first level we do bring awareness so that's like. getting in front of the zip codes that you want to get in front of retargeting your customer list, retargeting your website, visitors, um, just making sure that your brand is out there more. There's only so much you can do organically, especially on the metal platforms. Facebook and Instagram, they're just like, they're so much content on them. It's hard to reach new people. And so by spending it, 20 dollars a day on Facebook. You can reach the zip codes that you want to get in front of and get your brand out there and then And then we can start looking at Facebook ads from a lead generation standpoint kind of looking at all of the things that we talked about before making sure Internal systems are in place at this point. We have content. We know you pretty well like we can we can really do some good stuff there Do you actually find and do that?
Speaker 1What do you are you do you actually find and do it?
Speaker 0the content. Yeah. No, we partner with local videographer.
Speaker 1That makes more sense. That's the thing I've struggled with is like, how? Because just overall operating expenses gets a little crazy if you're having a flaw. Yeah. Do all these. Yeah.
Speaker 0For sure. And that's not it. Yeah. And so we've created a system where we connect with the local videographer. We set up like the shot list, the run show, all of those things. And then we get the content from them.
Speaker 1So no way is said,
Speaker 0No, I mean, that's of course another direction, but it's just, no, it doesn't have to be the owner. It doesn't have to be your team, but it's just so much nicer when it is. There's something so much more authentic about it.
Speaker 1I know it totally agree. I'm just saying, if somebody's like, listen, I know, but I'm a total introvert. And nobody on my team wants to do it because they're small and their team might be small. And so I just try to think through like, Even our sponsors on this show, we got church contractor commerce prolific, blue on evoke a basic capital. And I'm thinking, man, I want to look at their social media content. It's like, church pride, church does a great job. uh... i i own prolific and we do a terrible job uh... that will change uh... and i'm more time to spend on it okay just so it's clear uh... i think contractor commerce tries i know tall paul east of my old co-host on here uh... but i don't know like if i'm blown away by anybody's social media can't count it again i'm as guilty but i just even red bird roofing i've had it for a little over a year here and a half and shame on me because I avoided social media because I'm not there to do it.
Speaker 0Yeah.
Speaker 1And because I'm also not doing this every day, I don't have a plan. And I don't know what to reach out and say to a local like, you know, videographer or give him run a show or give him a shot list and all those types of things. Um, I know that it right now because I have a production team right at the podcast is you know has we have our team and like so I don't have to do that stuff. So it's easy for me.
Speaker 0Yeah.
Speaker 1I just got to be the pretty face.
Speaker 0Right. That makes it so much easier when someone tells you tells you what to do exactly.
Speaker 1Um, but are you, I just, I point the, when I want to get across those and why I'm kind of going down this path as I don't want to let the listeners who are too small and like maybe to reserve off the hook of, of ignoring social because I do think it's super important to, to have some social media presence, because you have it one way or the other, right? It's, yeah, it's whatever you've got out there or if the lack of things that you've put out there, people are like, oh, it's been, you know, a year since I posted you thing, is it was So I don't know if I have to hook. I just want them to be thinking through, hey, yes, I get you might not want to be on the camera. So yes, there's an option. I get you might not have people. Yes, there's an option. I don't know what to do. Well, there's some of you can help you. There's an option. So do something and do you do? Do you have to have to people work with you? Is it like, is there a set term that you want to work a like a three, a six, a 12? Do you have a term that you like to commit to? Because I can imagine you can only take on so many people at the same time.
Speaker 0Um, we like to add 90-day commitment to start off with, and then after that, it's 30 days at a time.
Speaker 1It's monthly after that.
Speaker 0Yeah.
Speaker 1So that's you.
Speaker 0But I got to say something because even though like nobody, most people are not comfortable right off the bat being on camera, that's not like most people are pretty uncomfortable with that. But it's like, what are you willing to do in order to ensure the growth of your business and sometimes you have to do things that you're uncomfortable with? And so I'm not saying it. Like maybe I'm a little bit more outgoing than some people, but I know the power of visibility and of putting content out there and so if this growth is important to you, there is just something about maybe doing it anyway. Even if it's even if it feels cringy, even if you're uncomfortable, even if you don't know what to do, especially if you're just starting out like it's your responsibility to build this business and get opportunity out there and social media is a free place for us to to get opportunity.
Speaker 1Well, last night checked, if you're running a business, there's often times when it has to be on, when you have to make uncomfortable decisions and do uncomfortable things. Right, so this is just a... Another one of those things. You know, it's interesting, because I mean, you know, my wife, you know, she took her wallet to get warmed up, you know, to be in front of the cameras. And any of this, it's like you could, I could be having a conversation with you right here, but as soon as you put a camera in front of someone's face, they change.
Speaker 0Yeah.
Speaker 1It changes. And there's no way that I know other than just doing it, like just doing it over and over again, then you get comfortable. I can be even for myself who is very outgoing and there's not, I've never been afraid to speak in public. I've never been afraid to be on stages and things like that, but it took me a little bit to adjust to shooting content or even hearing my voice.
Speaker 0Yeah, we're like really watching it or being okay with it, being out there, but.
Speaker 1and not like Yeah, and not like at some point constantly you know like judging yourself. I'm like God What the hell did I say that wasn't even true great.
Speaker 0I'm like great.
Speaker 1I say that that was so stupid. I go to the totally different way But that's where people get hung up is I think that, you know, they say it's a progress over perfection. Right. Like you're not going to nail. Just go through kind of be you. You know, and do the things. I think the thing that you said that's probably the easiest thing for those people to do is if you're going out on a job doing a normal normal service call that day, we'll just record something on a normal service call. Actually, I would argue that it's better when it's not staged, right? It's not professional. It's just you kind of doing your thing and people watching.
Speaker 0Yeah, I think we didn't talk about AI at all and that's totally fine, but I will say that that's your next bullet point, but the thing about, well, I'm going to jump your bullet point then, but the thing about it is that you have the opportunity to be like authentically connect with people online, which AI can't do. And so I was just talking to somebody about this and I think there's only like two directions on social that really work. And one of them is like completely unedited, just like raw, throw it out their content. And the other one is like very, very, very polished and like a series that ongoing. And anything in between just doesn't work very well.
Speaker 1So that's where I was going to actually try and end with is I literally wrote AI or humans or both, yeah, because I I thought when I was asking so many questions that you would jump into that as a solution for production and which is totally fine because I'm legit curious to know that I mean some of it you can I think if you're having fun with it, like,
Speaker 0Maybe there's AI trends and like you can jump on AI trends and they're cute and they're fun and people like that that's super cool But like in AI is great, there's opusclips.ai which is a really easy easy editing tool like easily Take out the stuff you didn't mean to say edit your videos. Capca has AI capabilities can but has AI capabilities. Of course we have chat GPT that can help us write really terrible captions for social media they're like AI can't do your social media. This is what I've been telling people recently. You were at Home Service Freedom. Did you watch Kevin O'Leary when he was doing that AI Kevin?
Speaker 1And I could tell which one was AI Kevin?
Speaker 0Oh, I failed it. But the thing is is that it was good, but we do not have that yet. Like that, that's not like what you can just go so it isn't do that. Google V03 doesn't do that. Like we don't have access to that at this level yet. So because of that, we still need to be creating our own content. There could be a day in the future and I'm sure there will be where we could use AI to do it, but that's going to be novel. It's going to go fast and people are going to really want like realness again because we don't get on nobody wants crap on social media. Like when you see a bunch of crap on social media, you get off of it. Like you want stuff that you actually like that's interesting. That's behind the scenes where like lawyers into people's life. And so if it's not that and it's just some made up stuff like that's not that's not why
Speaker 1Yeah. I'm 100% on board with that. I think the authenticity always is going to win the day. If you're willing to do it, and I don't think social is, I mean, the human behavior is the human behavior. There's shifts to it, but I do think that when something is fake for so long people miss the authenticity of it. Yeah. And at least maybe, I mean, I know that I do. It can be entertaining. You know, when I really want something like, I want to see some authenticity, you know, and to me that, you know, that matters to me. I mean, I guess I just try to think, I've always constantly tried to think about, because what I've been responsible for for so many years, almost two decades, was lead generation for contractors. So how I got to do that? I got to get somebody who wants a contractor and get set to hook for them and make sure their brands and their face constantly. So like all the things was tracking human behavior and how can I create ads that answer the questions I know that the humans are thinking. to get to choose the contractor and then how do I chase it all the way through? And so that's been my life forever, is that? But I'll say this. The of the customers that we had had over all those years and those who actually leaned into social media for more than 90 days. and continue to put their own, put themselves out there, always had really great success with social media. Now, maybe it took a little bit longer because of the bicycle, the sale, like, people aren't buying roofs every. Like, why send your life? Maybe once, you know, but maybe twice, once probably. But you just gotta stay consistent with it, right? And possibly, that's probably half the battle that people face out of doing it.
Speaker 0Yeah, there's we have clients that don't run lead generation and they get leads from social all the time and their their customers say like oh we saw you on TikTok or we saw you on YouTube or whatever and so it's that but we've been working with them for like two and a half three years and so it's just that. really long consistency and I tell people organic socials like a snowball like it doesn't do anything right at the beginning like it doesn't make that big of a difference you might hear from your family and your warm network like oh I've started seeing you post all over the place but it's that over time that people start to remember you that don't know you at all and that's when it really really starts to make a huge impact.
Speaker 1It's just another avenue where you can get some of the attention that you can completely control the content. Like, and it's not going anywhere. It's like, yeah. Be curious to see what other social platforms start to emerge.
Speaker 0I know. Someone asked me the other day, like, what's the future of social right now and besides like, curious to see what happens with AI and how social, I mean, and met as already implementing like different AI tools that although, like, for running ads, they're still just as terrible as all of the other stuff that they've put out there, but I think that it's more about like, I said it so Gary V talks a lot about social selling it from like an e-com perspective and one thing and I'm I'm going to keep saying this and someone's going to do it and it's going to work out for them, but I think like live jobs, you know, like full day look at what you're doing it so instead of live streaming. Ecom, you're like, just live streaming the jobs that you're going to. And I think that people would watch it. Like I used to watch this like restaurant cooking eggs and bacon. I think the liability is a little bit uncomfortable and that's what people would shy away from. But I do think that people enjoy that and find that really interesting and and you could probably end up just making money off the live stream even more getting customers from it.
Speaker 1That's interesting. So almost as you think, like the meta glasses, like somebody's just wearing them.
Speaker 0And yeah, you're just watching their whole day.
Speaker 1So prolific did a eight hour.
Speaker 0Oh yeah, I went, I was a part of it. Did you? I would like anything that I'm a big fan of Zack's. Anything that Zack does, I will jump on.
Speaker 1You such a great guy. I was like, you're going to do eight straight hours. I was like, dear Lord, that's so awful. Actually, it was pretty, it was like, They did a good job, like it was it actually did pretty well, like I mean, ultimately did pretty good.
Speaker 0So I didn't, I wouldn't want to do that, but I know it's hard, but I mean, yeah, medical classes makes it easier. It's going to be easier and easier for us to do that sort of thing. And I think that I think that could be something that's going to be interesting.
Speaker 1Well, then I guess I'll wait to see what the first one is to do it.
Speaker 0I know, right?
Speaker 1Um, okay. Well, listen, I already went way over that time. I thought I was going to go, but hey, we're having good conversations. So I was looking for it. But I'm excited for you. You know, like I said that for your event. And I know it's hard to put on, but I promise you it's so much worth it. You know, and, and I know that you're trying to do a good just do more good for the industry, the I love and you love. And, and I'll be curious to hear when it's all said and done, you know, where you're, where you're, where you're heads up with it.
Speaker 0Take a deep breath.
Speaker 1I'm grateful that you let Zach be a part of it. So thank you for that.
Speaker 0Thank you I'm too.
Speaker 1I'm so excited and I appreciate you giving me an hour of your time on a Monday. Great. Oh my day when we're recording this one. Actually, it's been great. Those are your listening. It's Thursday. We record this on Monday. So quick tour now. Nice job. Yeah.
Speaker 0I appreciate it. Good job team. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1Well, Jen, I appreciate coming on here and sharing everything, and I'm assuming that people go into the growth experience, you know, that they'll learn more about these things and possibly even more in depth to some of this stuff and actual more tactical things too. So get a ticket and go! What are you waiting for?
Speaker 0Yeah, it's going to be great. Stop it. It's people and presents.
Speaker 1Oh, good. People and presents. All good things. The three things. Yes.
Speaker 0No kidding.
Speaker 1All right, listen. I'm surprised it took us this long to do this, but I'm glad we did it.
Speaker 0Thank you. Me too. I'm grateful.
Speaker 1And I'm, uh, and I'm genuinely happy to watch your, you grow the business in to you, start to continue to have some more success and things like that. So like keep you can ask Jen.
Speaker 0I appreciate it.
Speaker 1All right, and to our listeners. But now you've got no reason to not do social. There's always an opportunity. There's always something that you can do, no matter what size of business that you're at, right? So the only thing that you're doing is because it's you. It's a will problem right now. It's an effort. You know what? Effort costs zero dollars, okay? Effort is zero dollars. So take advantage of it. So Jen, good luck at your conference and to all of our listeners. You don't gotta do everything, but you gotta do something. No zero days.
