Speaker 2this is to the point of Rinal Experience, fully one of the top home services marketing and operations podcast, cutting through the bullshit and getting to the point.
Speaker 0I actually, you know, normally I don't, you know, record it or like write an intro out for the guests, but man, I was like, you know, this morning, I'll say the shower. Is it weird if I say I've seen him on our guests? No, we're hell no. And I was thinking like, oh, man, I gotta come up with a really creative intro, but I was like in the shower trying to think through what it was and I'm like, okay, I gotta hop out and try and remember this. I'm gonna, I'm gonna write this shit down because I'm not going to remember it between then and now. So, I'm actually gonna do something a little bit different. Now, our co-host chat is on here today, which is a real bummer because I know how much he loves music. Now, he saw our guest at the last Rhino X. Much of a music guy, but we got him dancing a little bit too to our guests, so that was a win, but he's not on here today, he's actually as a kid's soccer game, so he's not missing anything. He's just going to make it boring anyway, so this would be much better with Adam. But I am excited for our guests. You're going to think, you're going to think, you listeners are going to think, what in the hell is this guy going to teach me about my business? Well, I'm certain he could teach you how to be fly in a competitive industry so that someday YouTube can be at the top of the charts or how to stay relevant. So when you wake up every morning you tackle the day with absolute confidence because when it's over it's all said and done you've had a great career So, I want to welcome my homie, my homie, the pride of Corona-Dohmar Seekings. 1998, people magazine sexiest rocker. Yeah, buddy. A walk with me, so you're in songwriter of four bangers in my opinion. Sugar-ray front man, my good buddy, now I'm Mr. Mark McGrath. Welcome, buddy.
Speaker 2Brother like this what an intro my life that what an intro you like that one and how you're going to wrap up when it's over And when it's over it's really But you forgot one thing Chris and I'm a little a little bummed out. You forgot shark NATO two three and six All three of those bad boys. I was in shark NATO series It shows you where my best feet and skills are.
Speaker 0You've got more than just that. You have more than just that. But those are the, like, those are the standouts, huh?
Speaker 2Well, you know, that in a joker too, because Kid Rock didn't want to do it, and Scooby do, which is probably what people know us from the best, you know, growing up Scooby do was my cartoon bro, I'm an old man, so in the early 70s when I was watching cartoon, Scooby was it, and then to ask to be part of the live action movie was, I mean, people were going to laugh, but that was when the highlights of our career got to do a song for the movie, we were in the movie, and And we filmed it on an island called Mauritian Island of the Gold Coast of Australia. And it was seven days of the most insane parting I've ever done in my life. They just emptied the modeling season of Australia. Put them on this tiny island, the size of Catalina. And it all looked like spooky island. We lived and died on spooky island for seven days. One of the best times of our life. So it was super fun.
Speaker 0Well now I've got foam. I missed out on that one. That's another great time.
Speaker 2Yeah, that was a good one. We were crawling off that island. We thought we'd party. We went out there. Those are Australians. They had different Christmas.
Speaker 0They know how to throw down down on that.
Speaker 2That's for sure. They do the thumb that down on them mate.
Speaker 0That's on that, that's on that. Hey, you know what, I was going to ask you, um, you know, so, you know, it once cool to have you on here, right? And, and actually, kind of, we're going to really not, we're going to lean into you is, um, you know, we'll talk, you know, I like you sharing some of the stories and stuff like that, our guests, you're going to like to hear that. And then, but there's some road and see here too that I want to, I want to, I want to hit on, and it's going to be around. You know, you're in arguably one of the most competitive things to become successful in. Like the music industry is incredibly cut-throat, very, very difficult to not only get through but then to stay relevant, you know, and to maintain some relevancy. Well, listen, a lot of our contractors at Listen to this podcast have the same issue, right? Like they're trying to become relevant, you know, and create, you know, some, some brand awareness, I can't grow these big businesses and then keep them big, right? So there's some some sustainability that really matters, but and we'll, and I'll tap into some of that because people are like Chris, that's a fucking reach. Maybe, but I'm gonna get there. Okay, so I'm gonna, I think I can walk you through a couple of things in your future and we didn't script this so you know, with the listeners like I had them all.
Speaker 2So let me touch on something Chris, you need to be brought on for get this. Cause it's actually a good point. I think I meant when we only industries that's a dream industry for people, meaning you could be the very best at what you do in this industry and not make it. Now, you might be, you could be the best plumber in the world today and you will make it because you are the best plumber, you're the best, you know, electric, you're going to make it, you could be the best singer in the world, you're not going to make it. So it's truly a lottery and a dice roll in the music business. Now, that's what makes it so exciting, that's also what makes it so unfair. And that's why I've got like me snuck in who can barely sing because I was never going to hear no. Ever, you were going to tell me no, you know, that we say plan A was a plan B was always plan A, that was always it for me. My problem was I couldn't say I couldn't write a song and I couldn't play an instrument. Three small little obstacles I'm the way to try to success with the music business. My point is this man, you know, sometimes people like leaning in the lane say, I'm not this guy. I can't do that. I can never own my own business. You can do anything you want to do. And especially in today's world, you can break down convention. It's just not one way to do things anymore. And it's never been an easier to do things in an industry, but it's never been harder to stay You may break their first. I just wanted to cap on that road.
Speaker 0That's really good. That's actually that's really thought boy. I Yeah, complete. It's it's well, you you just go to Nashville go to Nashville go down You know and just go out there and listen to these but you're like how did this person not make it like how exactly they're just seeing exactly They're seeing the tutsy Sharon Dippity, you know lock
Speaker 2Some people take themself out of the game. You know, just stay in the game keep going forward And I I say I'm not capable of saying a couple years ago, and I was pretty proud of myself Lock it never taps you on the shoulder when you're sitting on your couch. I've never seen it happen It's all outside your front door and the more people you meet, the more network you do, the better your chances are of becoming successful. You know, I mean, luck collides at the hard work and opportunity. Yeah. And that's what it is. And everybody Christian, I think you'll say it too. Luck is the one variable we can't account for. but you need to put yourself in position to receive it. And Chris, I've walked down Broadway in Nashville and heard a guy sing Sugar Ace song, better than I could ever sing it in the world. And I was with my manager and he was said the same thing to me. And I go, that's why the music business is so unfair. Right there. So I think, but you think, You can't not try because of the odds, you know, because it's still a dream we've been sitting there and when you can push through the new Lou, it can get through all the insanity of this business, get there and sort of get your bearings and stay there. It's a beautiful place to be. I love what I do every day. You saw us on stage Chris. I'm so grateful you had us at your part. And grateful you and I connected become friends. It's an honor and a pleasure, and that's one of the fringe benefits of this job, if you're lucky enough, you have a good show, but if you're really lucky, you get to be a couple of friends. And I'm just so grateful, if all these years still be something I love every day, wake up, and ask yourself if you love it, don't ask anybody else. And if you love it, it'll never become work. And that's in any business, I think you understand that.
Speaker 0Yeah, absolutely. I'm actually going to dig into that, but I want to talk about something right before that. I'm saying what I'm saying on a dig into is you're kind of going down the path of, You can't just sit there and go like you got to go out and network you got to do the hard work like all the grunt work to get you because luck is when preparation meets opportunity is another way that people will phrase that
Speaker 1And I was trying to say it, but I messed it up and you're like, oh, I'm going to correct them on that.
Speaker 0You actually said it in a good way. I was just saying there's another way and the way I learned it was that was that way. But it's the same concept as you got to go out and you're like, yeah, sometimes you get, you got to create your own luck, you know, you got to go and be active to create your own look. And so I'm completely tracking and I won't talk about that because I actually, I want to walk you through that piece because you didn't get roll until after even out of college. So he's like, yeah, that little gap after college before you ever started because 97 was like first off 97 was, you know, I graduated high school. And guess what I was playing in my 19. Wait, hey, 1991, geostorn bright yellow with the two tenths with the tins in the back. bumping a little. I just want to jump around because I got you.
Speaker 2I got you. And that would just a dream scenario. I don't mean to rub you man. I'm going to interrupt your lock is what I do because I'm a bit excitable as you can see. Yeah. But.
Speaker 0Yeah, I'm going to get to that. We're going to get to how you got to that, right? We're going to get to how you got to that. But I want to talk about something real quick. So I love music. I've always been a music lover. Like my mom got me into that. She used to own a bankle hall and DJ and all stuff. And like so I've been around my whole life. I know so many songs. Like so I'm like a human jet box. And you know, one of my friends, so I'm a back of one more second. You guys were, before you kind of came, I'm not sure what you classified, Sugar Ray as if it was more pop, if it was what, but I hate to almost say that, but it's kind of like, where you kind of fell in that pop world. But before you're kind of trying to do like the new metal thing, which I think is what you were trying to play around with. And new metal, I think, is hard for people to understand. So to give an example, like a Lincoln Park. A Lincoln Park would be in that vicinity, and just a fun fact. I don't think I ever told you this, but you're
Speaker 2I didn't know that. So my friend as well. So when I first got in the world, he's awesome.
Speaker 0You're a rest in peace, Chess. Chassie Chassie. And so I met him out here when I first moved to Phoenix because he used to be in the band called Great Days in the early days. And so when I moved out, one of his guitarists worked with my mom, who moved out ahead of me. So she's like Chris doesn't know anybody will be interested in some people. And so I met those guys like right when I moved out here in the 99. So, and that was right before he blew up with, you know, Mike and the guys, and so I got to go on like lots of different shows and hang out with those guys backstage and we had some great times.
Speaker 2I bet, I bet. Those guys should be not throw down on stage too, man. one of the best voices ever in the history of rock and roll and that's just not hyperbole that's just I mean Chris Cornell rescue soul would tell you that very thing you know yeah I mean both the amazing guys but it's good but they were in that new metal world right and yeah so you get pop a road that's right all those bands you know I think you know the first time the first time I saw you dude was at um
Speaker 0It was, I think it was Vans, was the Vans Warp Tour in 1997. Yeah, I'm 98, so I'm somewhere in that range. Exactly. And it was like Offspring was there who's still out doing his thing and kill him. Social D and kill him. He was there. Everclear. I think was there. Everclear. I think Blink was even at that one.
Speaker 2Blink when he too was there as well. Yep. Blink was there. Mighty Mighty Boston. The World Crown Review. Nolan Collin. Ranton, sick of it all. So many great fans. That was how I was in heaven there. Hep-Cat, this great scob-an from L.A. That's really fun. God, that was real big fish. Well, sky had to be true. Remember, 97 was real sky had to be.
Speaker 0So that was such a fun time because I just graduated high school and it was like prepare for college and that was like that summer That summer man was so was so good and this is like what it takes me back to So and music has a way of doing that right like you can hear a song or an artist and it takes you back to whatever Which I think is part of the emotional connection that makes it you know have sustainability
Speaker 2Um, lots of music is so powerful like that dude. Like it'll paint a picture for you. Forget take you back there. You know, you'll smell the back seat of a car if you want to. You'll you'll you'll see the view you were at. I mean, music is life from it's just it's this beautiful gift of giving back memories. and making them colorful in front of you, whether they're good or bad, music is always a companion to all of us. It's a gift from the gods, you know?
Speaker 0That's so, I completely agree with you, because I love that. I wish I could bottle up that feeling, right? And sell that feeling of what you have when you feel that thing. The fast and when you think about like these guys they're listening like why the fuck does this matter Chris? Well like when you own a contracting company like you don't have that to give someone right But you have to try to leave some sort of feeling to make them want to continue to use your business again or Some sort of feeling about your brand or your service that makes them want to come back So you are trying to create some sort of personal connection in a different way It's just like you're right in your brand like your your brand needs to make them feel something In the next game, the exchange, and it's not necessarily the product you are offering.
Speaker 2It's you, it's your essence. You want to be a round that person, you know, and like manners, Chris, manners, manners, and being kind is one thing I try to tell, I don't care what business you're in. You know, we're starting to lose common courtesy, and having manners is almost become uncool. You remember names? Okay, and you apply names at the time you see somebody you're gonna be successful in life I promise you doesn't mean you're gonna be a billionaire, but you're gonna have a good life Remember names to be kind of people.
Speaker 0I know it sounds simple But are you doing that every day and it's it's made me millions of dollars in my life remembering names We'll get we'll get to that Well you you use it you use So because I'm a salesman by nature Really great people know how to incorporate the name because you say someone's name There's a different feeling attached to when you you remember that name. It's simple common courtesy So here's where of all the artists that I've hired for Rino X or for my Christmas parties and I've had quite a few. I've dropped a few of them. Yeah. I was telling the story because somebody was like, well, you're going to have Martin McGrath on the podcast. Like how the hell did that go down? And I was like, well, I want to tell you. This was like, The easiest, like back, like we typically will go back into the green room before it would meet the artists, and you're like, no, we've had Nellie for a few shows, and Nellie has a friend of a friend, right? So I was able to get him through a friend of mine who's friends with Nellie, and like, so we've got to go and hang with him probably three or four times at different events. Great guy, it's just different. But do we go back, we go back? For those who don't know, here's a little insider secret. Marba Grath is a massive, tiny, Tim fan. Love's tiny Tim, huge tiny Tim fan, I'll get to that, but the point is she's that's actually there's a funny story there funny story there, but but we go back to the green room and then I do it Rhino X to last one and I swear to you this I feel like we just ran to an old college friend who I ain't seen in a long time and we just hit it off with instantly and I Uh, you know, but good, but then they were like, hey, guys show starts and like, you know, five minutes, you got to go because we're just hanging right now, you're having a good time.
Speaker 2I was like, you know, shit, we were getting after it. So we present anybody's ever met you is your friend. Yeah. You've got a wonderful way about you, you're very engaging your humble, you know, who doesn't want to be around people like that? You've got a great energy, this infectious, and you're just a guy that tries to maximize every opportunity in a room. And those are people I want to be around. You know what I mean? And I'm probably rehashing the most basic 101 sales things, Chris, that you were just an absolute crusher on. But when I haven't really had a chance to really talk about things like this, and I just felt that instinct connection to you, bro. You know, and I think you are a salesman at her, but all the qualities you have are inherent to you. You're not trying to sell anything when you're meeting people. You're trying to maximize a good time and a pleasant exchange in a room and that's why you're so successful.
Speaker 0Thank you and that is it and that's it. I want to make the most of every experience and I don't necessarily have some like, you know, thing that I'm expecting down the road. I just think expecting that moment to be great, you know, and I want to make the So the fact that we get to stretch this out because we create a friendship is like a bonus, right? That's a win for us to go to appreciate you saying that. So I want to, now I want to kind of get into just a little bit of the, you know, the, you know, the dirt that, like not even this one, which is the dirt, but like the grindy part, you know, the dirty part of getting to, you know, finally getting the pop with fly. And you, I know, I found out you co-wrote that's, I had the best freaking idea, the best idea because I own it. We've been company called Redbird Roofing and this what birds they fucking fly So I thought we got a great connection here. We could use that and that's like oh shit Mark Coral's son that changed things a little bit so But damn it But I want to talk about the grind leading up to it because again, like, and not that I've, I've Understand exactly all the things that you went through, but you know, like the so-called, you know, scene was crazy The music scene is was complicated like it's hard. It's like there's so much going on to break through actually have some success Man it takes a lot of effort and so I want to talk a little bit about leading up to that. So because a little bit of Mark's story and like the super high levels, you know, I, you know, from high school, who do you want to, you want to, you want to, you want to see, right? Okay. And then, and then you for communication, is that what it was?
Speaker 2It's my kind of go business tried to take the easiest business class there at USC. I was failing so miserably and my dad Restless soul was kind enough to pay for USC and bothers out there. No expensive USC is now. It was then and it was if you don't have three point Oh, I'm yanking your ass out of college and my dad was an old school done draper type of guy He meant what he said and said what he meant You know, and so this app I was getting in the easiest business math class was going to drop my GPA way below 3.0 and I was going to fail out my first semester at USC and I remember a map this map teacher who's the business the business class I was taking. It took me a side and said mark. If you change your major, I will give you a C-minus. And that's C-minus, but it kept me 3.0. I go, done deal, I'll change it tomorrow. And so I looked around me and I saw all the football players and cheerleaders were taking communication classes. And I go, that's for me. He said I was 18, I don't know what that I love to do. So then I went to communications and found out what it meant later. But yeah, that's my story. I became the communications major. And I was lucky enough. That's where I kind of found where my, my, my, my broadband was it in my, my smarts were herself. I was lucky to have to get a degree. He went, he went, he went, they got to that professor. We fear. I'm not a serendipitous event.
Speaker 0Why I'm talking? Hey, were you the same, was your personality the same than as it is now, as you're so outgoing?
Speaker 2I would say it was, you know, I think being on stage for the last 35 years has brought a lot more out of me, you know, I think it's made me a bit more of a smash. I think I was a little bit more reserved, but I was kind of in high school. I was on the varsity basketball team. And I love music, but I wouldn't commit to it, but I was a basketball guy, but it wasn't all in. You know, I got a couple of division three offers to play whoops, but I wanted to go to major university. So it didn't really figure out who I was into. I kind of got the college and then music became my focus. I tried to walk on the basketball team at USC, and there was a coach there named George Ravling. It was a Hall of Fame coach. He just passed away recently. And I tried up for the team, and they go, Mark, We notice you don't really have a strong left hand. You can shoot the lights out all day. We're going to keep in the practice slide. You don't get to travel. You don't get to uniform. We've rehearsed. We practice every day at five. And we'll re-evaluate you next year whether you're going to make the team. I looked at the coach in the face and I go, coach, it's just the end of my basketball career. And he goes, I think it is something, I think it is. And so I was so on my dream of being the point guard for the leaders that's over. And I remember going back to college, you and you dorm at USC and they had to MTV on. And I saw Dave and we dropped jumping off a kick drum. And I go, That looks fun. And so that kind of came my focus in music and then that's how I kind of got into it. So I never really to answer your question, the most verbose and garalist way Chris, I didn't really know who I was in college. You know, I wasn't this sort of outgoing person. It wasn't like I wasn't a, you know, shrinking violet. But I hadn't really found out who I was yet. But we didn't really wanted to do. Or I was kind of lying to myself. I always know I wanted to be like, like, on stage. But I was kind of lying to myself, because I never thought I could do it. I think it brought out the reality of what goals and dreams I wanted to create. And I'm grateful for college for that, you know?
Speaker 0Yeah, I mean, listen, I had no clue either. I went to, I tell this story all the time. I went to college for four years to get an associate's degree that takes most people too. in criminal justice, and then I got the UI and I screwed it all up. So, Colin, Sarah, I'm dipping this call what you want, but it worked out.
Speaker 1I'm so on brand Chris, I love it.
Speaker 0It worked out. It worked in my favor. But I did learn a good social game when I was in college, and that worked to my advantage. So I was pretty good. I did this. Hey, this is going to shock you. This is going to shock you. So I was a fraternity guy, and I was the party starter. It was like, when everybody got together, they knew, like, okay, Chris, it's go time.
Speaker 2And that was, you were in a pressure of your eye.
Speaker 0I was the burn pressure. Yeah, I accept I looked much better than burn pressure, but, but I was the party star. And I've always kind of been that, even today, like, I hate to miss out on anything. Um, but that's all is my person out. And then what, but I still didn't know what to do with that, right? I didn't even really know what I was going to do. And so I learned that as much as I am like, uh, I do like to make a make friends. I like to go out and be around people. I like to be around people in general. Um, it's just my genuine nature. But there's a, but you know, because of where I come from, I think you originally were from like Connecticut or something like that, right, before you moved.
Speaker 2Yeah, I was born and hard for Connecticut.
Speaker 0Right. And then you moved down the new point, Yeah, so I'm from the Midwest. I grew up in a farming community like and I think that my values are like I really care You know, and the reason I chose the blue collar industry is I could relate the most to to that's kind of how I grew up right in the same way and and because I genuinely want to help people and I genuinely like people and I would believe that your word is your bond So those are all my natural things I do and all I do is just lean into it you know, and, and was able to leverage, you know, those, like, traits I've been given to have success. And, um, and, but there was a grind to it, right? Like, because you just want just because you got now, what now, what are you selling? And then I got to be able to build the things and like do the things. You have to go out and try and perform it and you say you could sing, you couldn't play any instruments. You could like, pretty fucking important to be able to learn how to do these things if you're trying to make it the music industry.
Speaker 2And now you're like, it's my lead into that Chris is an inspiration, you know, you might necessarily think like that like, you can't do something just because you can't do something. Have you ever tried it? Yeah, a lot of people watch this while I'm having never sang on stage or I can't do it that. Never tried it. You know what I mean he wouldn't you know things you got it you don't know to get thrown in the deep end and if you have the you know the Colonies it up there and do it you don't know yet and I think one thing I've been willing to do in my career is try everything I don't stay in a box. I think outside the walls. Let me try hosting you know, let me try this over here. Let me try some acting. I've always been willing to try. You know, and I think that's what's can't be around forever. And I think like you just were talking about sounds like, how did you know you could salinity try? Right, dude? I mean, and obviously your personality kind of has to be suited to certain things. And I might come a little easier to you, but I think you can learn certain things, especially with the help of others. You know, it took a village for me and someone a producer named David Khan who led me to water And that was the biggest gift he could give me. You know, we were going into seeing our song fly. We talked about it earlier. Went to number one, but who's County? and we're going in to sing the song and on the record floor, flies the anomaly on that record. It didn't sound like anything else, it had its own vibe, and I was going to record that, the label felt good about the demo version of the song, and we felt this is our shot. So I'm going to record the song, we had written the chorus, has got it done, and our producer goes, Mark, I got some good news and some bad news for you and being the Irishman that I am ago give me the bad news first you know he goes that the bad news is you can't say I mean red lights on microphone down here whole bands in the control room just waiting for me to sing the song I'm already stressed out panic and I go excuse me his name is David excuse me David what could possibly be the good news Because, well, if you listen to me, we've got a whole new technology called Pro Tools. And what I can do by getting your voice together, I can pitch and pull the keys, get you rate where you want it to be, so you're singing everything just effortlessly and cohesively. And I don't know what he was talking about, but I go, whatever you need, he goes, you're talking voice is your singing voice, you've got a great tone in it. And I think with that tone, we can sell 2 million records. And I thought it was fully shit, but I heard that, you know, fast forward, you're an appleader, Florida, so a two million records off that one song. So, you know, you just never know where it's going to come from. Just keep showing up and don't give up, man, you know, don't give up. And I know it's such a cliche. It's been a cliche from our parents when we're young, playing sports, but just don't take yourself out of the game, man, if that means anything to you listening, don't you take yourself out of the game. And then you're like, well, of course I won't mark. We're our own worst enemy. We're the first guy I can't do it. you know all the business now it's over don't you decide when it's over take it to the edge and just before you be pushed up still keep biting man because i'm here to prove to you that's why i'm talking to you that's why i think of a career in music i just kept on believing in myself and i wasn't going to stop until it was over it's never over till it's over as you'll get your answer when it's over i heard the pun there when i was
Speaker 0I heard it. Hey, you. So, actually, let's, let's say about, okay, so, um, a lot of these contracts.
Speaker 2By the way, Chris, you're going to have to bring me back. No, and I go on tangents. I freak out. I get excited.
Speaker 0So, my apologies. I love this. I can plan playing off of it so this is actually easy because it actually is a good so I can find this segue into the next thing I want to ask you so there's a lot of people are listening on your who've had some well-loved success already There's some who are just still trying to achieve the success which is great because what you just said You know a place to that like just keep going the shit's not easy if it was easy everybody do it But then what you got it you got to sustain it and I would argue that that sometimes is as hard as getting it So you got to be able to sustain it. And now here we are in 2026, you know, damn near 30. I'm terrible. There I say it. Unbelievable. Uh, and you had to do that.
Speaker 2You know, I want to touch on that right there. There's another thing that I say to people that ask me about, you know, success in various industries. Success is the second hardest thing you'll do in any industry, having success in your industry. And it should be like, well, Mark, that should be the first one. No, no, no. There's levels to this thing, people. Staying there is the hardest thing to do. Ask any athlete, ask any mid-level band like us, to get a crack at the big leagues. Hey, we all wanted to be aerosmith. We wanted to be a CDC, and we wanted to be the Eagles. And we took a crack at, we had three platinum records in a row, four top 10s, two number ones. So tell them in records, we were there. We had a shot, we had a fastball coming down the middle. We tried our best, but it just didn't happen for us. Now there's no boo-hoo for me. We probably got way more than we deserved. And I've heard a testify that we did. but to stay there and be able to continue at that level of success, it's rarefied air, homies, it's rarefied air. And you can be successful right now, but we're gonna be in 10 years, you know, I think you've gotta keep that humility. And there's always like, you could never be sort of, you could be grateful and take a big, a big, like, you know, a big breath of fresh air, but you can't be, You can't be satisfied you know Chris like anybody's ever successful you always want more I am dumb enough to think right now 58 years old I could still write a hit song But that will be awful motivated me at 25 you know, I'm saying so it's never I I said it right It's never oh I'm always hustling and trying to fight and I'm never happy where I'm at I'm grateful But I'm never satisfied and happy so that's it.
Speaker 0This is a perfect segue because what I was gonna ask you is like you have to come up with some sort some sort of discipline When you're at your peak to sustain this success and you've heard like even if you're not in music industry We've all heard the stories and seen the biographies and all the shit about oh, yeah, you peaked or you're a one hit wonder or How do you mean like as ACDC airspeed you drop some big bands who have clearly sustained at a high level for a lot of years and continue to Um, but like what was it that you were that you were doing that kind of you did you have to create like hey I know that on the daily or on the weekly or whatever. I got to do these things to make sure I'm given us opportunities to to stay relevant like what were some of those disciplines and things that you had to do to do that
Speaker 2Well, let me be real clear by saying we did a lot of stupid things, that's sort of negated counteracted that thing. You know what I mean? Look, we started as a party band in Newport Beach, California to play a bunch of cover songs around a gig in 1988, that was the goal. You know, we never got rid of that spirit, even when we were a multi-million dollar corporation making a lot of money around the world, we like to have fun and drinks and have some fun and have some drinks. Like we still do today, Chris, you know, how did we miss some meetings, as we overindulged the night before? Absolutely. You know, when you're in the rock and roll business, I'm sure up to work, and there's two cases of beer, two bottles of games and two bottles of vodka, are expected that you're expected to be hospitable. it's part of the game. So it is a gigantic learning curve for us that a lot of people don't survive from. Now I'm not saying drinking and all that stuff is only germaning to the music industry. Everybody's got to come to Jesus with their own terms, that everything, right? But it's really sort of perpetuating manifest that in the rock and roll world. And when you're on the road in touring, your board, your lonely, these things come real easy at you. So you've got to learn what your level is. And our first year, 97, when we were on the work tour, having our first hit with a number one song on MTV, having a bus for the first time, but we over and told, we had to figure out where that was. And you don't do the road, the road does you. We've lost many of good rock and roller to the highway wake of dead bodies because they couldn't hand you know, it was just too much, you know, so it's something that was one thing you had to navigate and once you do that you can start implementing like what your personal character mixes are, you know, I'm a man of my work, if I make a phone call, I'm gonna be there, I'm gonna show up on time, those kind of things that apply to any industry were important in rock and roll, even though they give you a longer lease to hand yourself in that business. So, you get treated differently because you're kind of adulated, you're kind of insulted in a way that's not normal. And you also have to rectify that. You start feeling yourself a little bit. Oh, I am this gray. You know, I have a great support system. I have the same friends I've had for over 50 years. And that's one thing that they've always kept me humble. When I've got it aligned, they smack me right back in line. So having a good support system in France was really important to me to showing up all the time. But I mean we made a ton of mistakes. I made a lot of mistakes as well. So there's things I would have definitely done differently Chris now, but you can't see that because I was young and dumb and haven't fun. I don't regret anything I did, but I would do things differently if I had my 58th or mine in my 27 year old mine. But then I got to probably wouldn't have made it because I wouldn't have been my homeworks and anything. I wouldn't have done the dumb things and naive things that I did to make it happen. So it's kind of a push-and-full, you know what I mean? I mean, wisdom is great as you get older, but it ain't better being young and stupid.
Speaker 0Listen, I just did, I was a guest on a podcast earlier today and it was asking me the same thing. It's like, it's so easy to say, oh, I would, you know, what I would do then. Well, you, I have, I'm far more intelligent today than I was then. But maybe I wouldn't even made this far if I didn't have, like, I would have over analyzed things and not done them or whatever. But I just kind of let it rip and just figure it out. Exactly.
Speaker 2And then like I think you lose that spirit as you get older and rightfully so because, you know, it's not to build these coming to mind, you know, I, I'm still operating a multi million dollar company here and there's a lot of pressure on me and there's balsam feeding and people I'm employing and I'm responsible that when you're young, I got it just thrown on against the wall and you don't care. You know, I mean, you care and you're concerned about others, but there's that that spirit of the youth, you know, I'm being a world dominator, man, that you kind of lose a little and you're supposed to get older, get family, your priorities, change, and also like your focus, change. And you get older, you know, I'm so much time for people that matter to you when you're younger, you can put up with a ton of bullshit, you know?
Speaker 0Yep. Hey, hey, you, so you, okay, this is actually another great segue I want to lean into. You talk about managing a multi-million dollar business. That's, the business to music, and you have to manage those things. And then you're talking, there's two ring, there's merch, there's licensing, there's all kinds of shit that you have to make. There are people, you know, human beings who are impacted by your decision making or whatever. And so I made this, I made this post on after you guys come out to run OX. I took a video, I can't remember what it was. And it was just something I took a video of me and you're seeing it background and you came up and like, yeah, whatever. And I posted it and that thing like blew up and went viral, which was awesome.
Speaker 2And I was like, I don't sit back for you Chris. I go Chris has never been in the storm of a sugar race or a little viral video and you were gone You see I did you see I was I can fold that I was like I was like I was talking mad shit.
Speaker 0I'm like I was going on
Speaker 2But just shows what a good dude you are, and then you have her back, you're like, not on every grade, because to those who probably have not seen it, the video of shot is planned Chris has a party for his friends. He's got 40, 50 great friends that are lucky enough to be in his world and see his fans. And people saw that like, oh, Porsche, you're ready to put in front of 40 people. I'm like, oh my god, Chris was more generous than probably paid us three of your salaries with the year. You know what I mean, dude? It's like, it's just, but, but social media is what it is. And I hope Chris don't go fight in that battle, but like he just, you know, it's almost you engage in them. It's almost like, you know, hyping up our foreign SNES that got her big side. Oh, he's gonna respond. And all you did was protect me and look out from me, Chris. I want to thank you, dude. That's just showed you what a, what a good dude you were. Well, what a, what a, what a, what a good human being.
Speaker 0Unless I'm not naive to I'm not naive to everything you just said and because I could you know Runny digital marketing agency for so long that in both such Well, like of course, but but the point even wasn't that like it's but just some people I was like I'm gonna let this I'm gonna let this motherfucker have it though like cuz I logged in this profile. I'm like, so okay So then I was like, okay, this is not who I am But the point of it is it's like you're I kept I kept saying like you're like you are going out and looking for shit Like you are still playing so many shows like and and That is the business like and there's a lot of money wrapped up in that business and then and And like ours was private so you didn't bring merchant shit like that But that is a part of these things sometimes I'm not sure how much you do or don't do that now But like are you managing that do you have people helping you manage that not not not so much your your agent managing the schedule business of it itself, is that on you and someone else or who's managing that?
Speaker 2Yeah, we have a really good management company called shelter management. We have a gentleman named Tom Storms there at the Robb of Nashville, and they've got a bunch of big acts bearing a good ladies, easy top, liquid mat, and then the Sky Tom Storms, who ironically is our manager now, I went to college with the USC, and we were in the same fraternity, believe or not, with Will Ferrell too, believe or not. We're going straight in! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha get shelves together. It's become a wonderful thing. I got to tell you the 90s aren't full swing right now in terms of nostalgia and just like it's almost like part two of the 90s because I got to tell you Chris, it took the stink of the 90s a long time to go away. And there were some really to like 2015 until it really started picking up again until the people in power, CEOs, people like yourself that could make decisions for private parties started reaching back to 90s, you know. So, and it's never stopped and I like to say the 90s will never be over in terms of nostalgia for all of us that went through it because it was the last decade we all received at their Whether we watch Seinfeld at 9 p.m. and NBC, we all saw it the same time. Whether we got our records on Tuesday, it tower records of where have you bought them? We got them on time. There was a community sort of experience to what the music TV and we've never lost at the 90s and we never had it again after Napster and Streaming came in. Yeah, you know, and I think that's been been so valuable to our business. So we've got a wonderful team in place. I do a lot of decision making obviously all the merchandise design merchandise is huge for any band. They'll all tell you that. We're getting basically paid twice. So that's an important part of it. Obviously all bands have like their store that's part of their website. So there's many ways to hit revenue in terms of them. being in the music business in general, obviously live business is one. If you still own your songwriting and masters, that's a beautiful part of it too. So there's many ways that's sort of happening overseeing. I do that in tandem with our management.
Speaker 0So you talked about actually you just said something and and I think you know I think I'm a fucking trendsetter mark. I think what you just said because here's what happened when COVID When COVID hit 2020 right like that's when shit got weird for everybody right because you can't go and perform Can't do anything I have a Christmas party to put on and I'm determined to get an artist there Like in 2020 2020 this was like the start
Speaker 2But I want your audience to know how hard that would to do in 2020 because there was a lot of optics to that Chris, oh yeah, whether you were being irresponsible for doing this, whether the artist for being irresponsible and what was scary about Kobe Chris and a lot of your your contractual understand this we didn't know there was a two month period there started Mark 16 it was they have to my birthday I'll never forget and we flew home that day to airport to empty. and around April or May, there was talk of, oh, we're never going to convene again and alight music situation. I'm like, what? I just got here. That's how I make money. There was talking after two or three months. So for Chris, for you to be so adamant I'm putting a show on the winter of 2020, since a lot about you, bro. You're having a nice trip for you.
Speaker 0Thank you, and I'll tell you, it was, I think everybody that was ready, like artists were easier to get if they could go and do it and all the different, you know, red tape you had to kind of work through, but by December there was a little bit of like, you know, leverage like, well, well, you could pull some stuff.
Speaker 2Don't have any, don't have any income coming in for six months and everybody gets real smart. Yeah. Well, yeah, when you see your signal chicken. Because those were still being paid. Everybody said, go, shukun, yeah. I think sucking sound at night when you were sleeping was your finances going down the drain. Well, everybody was ready to work.
Speaker 0Well, let me just tell you, 2020 fucked up my budgeting because it said a non-realistic expectation for the future years because I had, I had, and this kind of will bring it back to, I thought, man, let's go back to the 90s. And I said, I want to have, I had a cullio come in. and I had a young MC and so we did like a little three thing. It cost me like I knew you should talk about price, but I'll talk because that's forever going to shit ain't this way now. Just so you know, way different. But even then there's like 45, 50,000 dollars have those three artists. The fucking stage cost me 35,000 dollars. I know I'll get same it that's it yeah that was uh everybody was hungry there I'm wrong but I'm saying it trust me that was the last time I was like oh shit Like I'm not even close to budgeting now so but the point was is like those were all 90s guys and then You know the very next one I had I came here if I had Nelly then to which is a massive you know Just step up I don't think it was Nelly had to be somebody else maybe it was flow right in then Nelly But what right I mean flow is I've had him for three events. He is awesome dude. Like the two best the two best like personal performers I've had are you and flow like both you guys are so good at like getting a crowd involved but but the the previous year last year I had another three banger I had I had a Open and then I had Warren G and then I had vanilla ice
Speaker 2Oh man, Rob's great. You talked to Rob, right?
Speaker 0Yeah, Rob was totally totally cool. I mean, all of them were cool. Warren, you was so high the whole time. Um, so he was, he was like, but, but it's Warren cheated. So I loved it. It was a ton grand.
Speaker 2It's on grand.
Speaker 0But the, but ice was awesome. Like we hung out in him afterwards for a bit. He was super, he was super cool too. Great show to, right? He's a great show. Put on the great show. Put on a great show. But you said the correlation here is all 90 stuff, right? Like I and I enjoy those things. And so then I say to my friends who also have events and guess what? Now they've gotten them coming to their shows. So because it's all like you can relate so much. So many people like that. And it works. Yeah.
Speaker 2And a lot of Chris, too, a lot of the business, too. And I'm starting to wrap you, but I told you I was going to do that. Let me start this. A lot of these artists that I've worked with before and if you're lucky enough, to get shows in the corporate world. If your catalog is lucky enough, there's another level to this work. You got to play nice in the sandbox. You know what I mean? You don't have to work with artists. You don't want to work with. You know what I'm saying? Like you said, you tell your friend that I was an asshole, like I was cool. I mean, It seems to be the same people are working still because everybody gets a show up professional, you know, you're personable and you put on a great show, you know, and so I'm not surprised you had those artists because those those artists like these very characteristics I'm talking about they all are inherent in those artists and great guys and I think
Speaker 0a big misunderstanding is that nobody would ever think about this, but just for people who are thinking like, well, you know, if you're going to play in a private, you know, small event, well, then you're kind of a husband. By the way, there's players right now that are like main stage big-time acts that I promise you are fucking doing private shows.
Speaker 2In Britain, there's not a band, a lie that doesn't do private courts. Now, much every scale is differently, but you get the rolling stones to play your backyard tomorrow night if you got 20 million bucks. Yeah, I'm sure, there's no band that doesn't do it. Now, county fairs used to be embarrassing. Yeah, well, now, bands plan their tours around county fairs. I think all of us know that the live entity is where bands make their money now. You know, Napster and streaming made our music and valuable. And that's a, I was a weird part of our journey. When, like, you were lucky enough to get this golden ticket called a number one song, which traditionally would have taken a view in your family's family for the rest of your life. Yeah, but that became useless. I quite a few people in Mark and I understand it's just the song And then because it's intellectual property, right? It's not a thing per se But I go, well, let me put this way if I walked into a museum and I took a basket he out off the wall and said this is mine now Is it mine now? It's no that's basketball. This is art I get them every time I go exactly, that's our art, you know what I mean? It's free now, there's nothing to do about I just want to people see that sometimes you're songwriters complain a little bit, there's a reason why. I mean, that's our art, that's the building we built. That is the construction company we started. Those were our trucks, you know, that was our materials, and now they're just free. Okay, and now it's happened to Hollywood and they're not so happy about it. So it's it's it's a eyes coming from a lot of folks. So, you know, we were just the first industry to really feel the effects of the digital world and that was interesting to navigate, but my point was that's why everybody's playing live now. There is no there's no show that a band is not grateful now for having. You know, and because that's where that's where 75% of any band that is lucky enough you Be able to play live to make a living gets their money from the live situation.
Speaker 0Why do you think that's so many okay, so I'm going to I'm going to give you an example of a band After I tell you after I ask this question, but like why do you think? And I'm trying to connect this to relevance like continue relevance whether you're a business owner or your musician or whatever, but like why do you think that some bands create fans for life and others just create like listeners like what is that delta there and let me let me throw this out there. Um, it's a oasis. Like, I've heard that they were a very complicated group to work with. I don't know, I've only heard those things. And I love Oasis. I think they're great. And then they started performing again. Um, these are guys who didn't play. Like, just shut down and do anything. Get when they came out, like, they're selling out. Oh, wait, it's like, I've not gone in seeing, but like, how, like, what is it that, Is it your personality, is it just as simple as how you treat people because you I don't get it like how are you creating fans for life, even when you ain't putting on any music or on stage, you don't perform. I don't get it.
Speaker 2There's one thing that's always been the connective tissue between all of that of maintaining fans and it's great songs. There's no voodoo to it. There's no magic to it. It is great songs. It doesn't matter what genre is if you're metallic a fan or if you love Britney Spears, doesn't mean you have to like Britney Spears. They're great songs. That's a connected tissue. Now, I say this about sugar rain just to give us an example. We have classic songs, but we're not a classic band. You know what I mean? Arrowsmith. classic man, classic song. And I kind of touched on this a little earlier. We tried that we we swung for the fence. It's tried to come back, classic man. But that's that rare fighter. We had the great song and sometimes talent is just that the defining characteristic you need. We just maybe didn't have the talent song writing a life to get us through some areas and some decades. Oasis did and does. And that absence of Oasis drove people crazy. And that's why they came back, sold out multiple stadiums around the world. And what was the finding, connect the tissue there? Great song. That lasted generation. And if you saw the Oasis crowd, they were helping where people are dinner 20, young people. It was like, the Beatles fans today are aching years old. You know what I mean? So as it's the great songs, it was always that thing that made you have those fans for life. But it does it mean having eight, one great song doesn't mean you're going to have fans for life. How many of the great songs mean you're going to always play? Play forever. You know, we're lucky to have to do your corporate shows and we do a lot of casinos and things like, yeah, we know she's ready to have four songs, great, we're coming out, we've got a good night, you know. But getting that hard ticket? like ferver fandom we weren't able to maintain that and that's okay you know I do know that you can't hang a fan base on a haircut right that goes away and you know and people cycle out all the time so it's always good straight songs it's gonna be that that thing that really drives you to come see you know okay this is gonna be off a completely off script but you got me thinking about this I'm really curious to know what
Speaker 0Why can't you not get Steve Perry back there, Danny? I can't, they do, that, you, that tour would break the world.
Speaker 2And they can bear, I got a very simple answer for you and I can completely agree. It's the same reason my Michael Jordan can't join the Chicago Bulls tonight. Wouldn't you love to see prime, great-a, era, Michael Jordan play for the Bulls tonight?
Speaker 0Yeah, size here you go.
Speaker 2Steve, Steve Perry, as much as I love the man, cannot handle the repertoire and the songs I'm journey today. People get older, you know. The one thing about the music business is that we get to keep playing as we get older. That's also the bad news, not all of us should keep playing. You know, but, but if we, but to think about this, some people, oh, Frankie Bality is 91. Why is he doing anymore? If you want to die quickly, retire. No. If you don't have a schedule on something to be accountable for, I mean, I understand why everybody keeps doing it. It's our identity. Why would you give your identity back? You know, and Steve Perry's only not doing it for jury because, unfortunately, he couldn't handle that case load. In fact, the guys singing from them right now are now amazing. His voice is starting to go and I'm the last guy to talk about someone singing because as we talked about I don't have the best voice in the world But thankfully the guy that was so instinctively and toothfully told me Mark your voice is your speaking voice By the grace of God hope that I can keep doing it as I was a biggest gift he gave me because as you know So we were older mature it was more aggressive and I'm screaming and yelling in all that But the things they'd hit with the songs to run might basically speaking voice come so hopefully I'll be able to keep doing that out sorrows has had to change his thing, you know, people just get older and you get to watch us do that in the music business. How sad would it be to watch Michael Jordan tonight playing against the lakers in the condition he's in?
Speaker 0Yeah, I see what you're saying.
Speaker 2That's why. Yeah, I see it's breaking your heart a little bit.
Speaker 0It makes sense because I, you know, if you, if you don't want that to be the, I'll tell you what, I'm going to say it's because she recovered. I went and saw, um, he was a Pat Benatar and Brian Adams, they played in and what's his name, whatever, I forget her husband's name or whatever the guy's name is, but anyway, the first time I saw her was not great. I was not great and he wanted to be great because it's Pat Benatar. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, not the last time, but the previous time. But then I saw her again with Brian Adams and she felt like killed it, but she changed the way she was seeing and the song, she dropped it down a little bit, which is fine, but because I would not want to go out if I'm Steve Perry. And you know, and be like, I, and not, and not sounding like even remotely close or or messing up Steve Perry, because then that's what people are left with. If right now they're just left with Steve Perry voice that we all know and love. So that makes Steve knows that.
Speaker 2And those songs, they're so iconic and identifiable. You can't change the melody. You can't bring the keys down too much because then it starts to drag, you know, and you want to hear them like you want to hear them. That's why there's bands like foreigner. They're so out there without a original member because the band can deliver. and the fans are have anointed borner as a classic band. So welcome in former, you know, we're going to let you, we're going to welcome you, because not everybody can just go out and be fake journey or fake form, former was able to do it, you know, and maintain. It's talk to you because there really is no answer to every scenario. And that's kind of like we want to answer for everything. And another thing we're dealing with bands is relationships for all. And I'm talking about Yeah, in most cases. Yeah, unless you get your right home, but you know what I'm saying so you're you're getting real emotional connections That sometimes just sabotage the success of bands another layer of why it's impossible sometimes for bands not to exist or become successful Relationships get in the way. I know every all the contractors listening out there go we know what do we've got our guys But it's a little different in music and people go why can't you just keep your original band together and I go if you can go out with your original girlfriend tonight and take it on the date Then I'll tell you why. I could never do that. I go exactly. I've been with these guys 30 years, you know. So there's interesting dynamics all in play. And every band is in their own subjective reality for why they can or cannot play.
Speaker 0I love it. So I'm like, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to ask, first off, like, this is great. Like, you're just for me personally. This is fun. Because I love talking about you doing. And then I'm going to ask one last question. And then I'm going to do just a quick if you're cool with it. Just do like a quick quick rapid fire, like quick answer if you're if you're capable of what you're not, we'll do our best. But we'll see if I could do a rapid fire question. I'll tell you this. Do you know, first off, you mentioned Frankie Viola, Frankie Viola in the poor season. And he's still out there doing this thing. Now he don't move very much. He doesn't move very much. And I'm 100% sure you're not singing. But it actually, it's Frankie Viola. He's there. But you know who still kills it? Who's older is Kevin Kroneman, my R.O.S.P. wagon, like that dude's still killing it.
Speaker 2Yes, Mickey Thomas is still out there doing it from starship. He's in mid 70s same keys crushing it. There are guys there Just to find father time and killing it and you know hopefully will be around for a while So if there's bands out there you're like, oh wait till next year to see them go see them now You never you never know what can happen.
Speaker 0That's that's exactly the fact that I can kind of I'm in my mentality is the one I that I mean the one thing I like I wish if I could have had to like seen a band that never got to see how to love to see Queen in their prime like I thought that'd be awesome.
Speaker 2Oh god, that'd be cool. So for sure.
Speaker 0Um okay so so I'm gonna go this one last question I'm gonna hit you with some rapid fire stuff and and this is where a lot of times I like whenever I'm interviewing other contractors who've had a lot of successes you know, you've had a lot of different failures on your way to finding this success. Everybody goes through some version of what you just got really, really, really lucky, which is not most people. So I want to ask a question just around failure first, and see what your responses do. And it's, and it's, It's fun to talk about the success, right? Like that is the most fun part to talk about because it's the most fun part of the journey. It's the most fun experience. It's all the things. It's the good shit. But what did failure fail your teach you in this journey that success didn't?
Speaker 2Well, you know, there's that old cliche. You learn more for your failures and your due successes. You know, you figure out what you're about, what you're made up. You know, our first record came out and failed. We have Rekko Lemme Brown, he's came out in 1995, and it was like, pre new metal, like it wasn't new metal was even a turn yet. Yeah, we were rapping, and we were rocking, we were punk rock, and we were doing all these things, because we got signed, and we only had two original songs. So once we got signed it was like a careful with your asspart thing. Oh my god, we got to write some more songs. So we were like kids in a candy store and we had to figure it out. But our first record was a failure, man. And I remember I can put myself right back to, uh, and the Hollywood 95, the record came out. It was done. We were driving eight hours in a van to play in front of three people. The record label stopped calling us and like it was over. It was over, you know. And That desperation and knowing that a year and a half ago, our dream came true by getting signed to Atlantic Records. And then it was going to be over a year and a half later. And that was going to be our definable dream. It's over that sit. So what happened to us was we went inside each other and said we need to write some songs that matter. We'd written songs about beer and bullshit and partying and all that. We could we need to touch some souls. And because of this record that was a failure, Right? We were able to go out and play music every night. We got better as a band. We got better as musicians. And most importantly, we got better as songwriters. And there was a stupid eat it down the band. Like, don't write songs that mean anything. It's about beer and cars and girls. Which is fine. people built a career on on that, but that wasn't our path. So when we decided to sort of touch where we were our desperation right there and use the desperation, use the sadness, you know, create something out of that, you know, where the pressure causes a diamond, we came up the song fly and the darkest period of it because we wanted to escape where we were and luckily for us escape was in the manner of writing a song. We stumbled upon the song fly but a lot of bands would have given up right there. The label was in returning our call so there was no guarantee we were going to make a second record. a lot of times when it packed up and said, oh, we decided not to do it because we're going to bail. We said we're still here, we still have a record deal and luckily we came up and fly, the label hurt that and gave us the money to make a second record. So I think in your darkest time, you can find, definitely what you're made of. If you're a quarter or not, you're going to find whether you're worthy of success in your darkest time. Because your darkest time gets rid of 90 The bad news is you've got to go through it to get to the good stuff, you know. And by the way, even then there is no guarantee, but it shows you what you're made up. So I'm grateful for those dark times, you know. And those failures, that particular failure of that record show me how fragile everything was. And so I kind of just went back to basics and said, why are we here? Oh, we make music. Let's make the best song we can. If you didn't do that, then statues wouldn't have crumbled for you. Chris that imagery right there shows you exactly where my head special space was. Yeah, yeah, flies a song about escaping the situation. You're in. Boom. See, that's where that's okay. Number one song that made millions of dollars continue to around the world right there. You know, I get goosebumps thinking about it. I'm glad you asked me that because I haven't revisited that in the while. It makes me like super grateful and humble.
Speaker 0Well, you can you're a song and you and it's at face value. You don't know he depth to it. We have a depth to it now. It has a different meaning. Well, you understand They actual feelings attached to the depth of what created five and it came from one of the most disappointing moments of your life and the hardest times of your life And look what happened you just didn't you kind of said at the beginning like you just don't you just didn't quit you just keep going you know then right I've heard some people say hey you okay you can quit but just don't like quit tomorrow and then it just always quit tomorrow This was kind of like a Navy seal mentality that I heard a guy talking about it.
Speaker 2Great. to great mentality, to get through the day, just don't, you can quit. Boys, wake up differently, you always wake up feeling differently. You're only just getting through the day, man, grind it out. And what's funny when we're talking about songs, what it means to people, I made the mistake of telling someone what fly meant, and the summer of 97, the first came out. They're all, you know, the thing about your mother, God rests your soul and all that, and I'm like, oh my mom's still alive, you know. The person fell on the ground crying because I hate that song and they were so bummed out about that exchange and I went, oh, the song is about whatever it means to you. I'm done telling people what the song means. And we had two or three songwriters to wrote the lyrics and the melodies and our songs. So we would play out each other. We wouldn't tell each other what we were necessarily writing about. We tried to deduce it and kind of intuitively decide what the lyrics were about. So we never really told each other. So it was a bit of a push and pull and a more universal quality to our hit songs for sure because of that very thing. There were a couple of minds working at once. And so that was one thing I learned, man, do not tell people what this song's mean because it doesn't matter. What does it mean to you? That's what I've seen now.
Speaker 0Yeah, that's right. I think that's absolutely, I think that's so perfect. And why? Like, there's no reason to, like, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're I'm sorry. No. I'm trying to cut me short. No, dude. I'm telling you, this is great. So if I wanted to cut it short, we had to cut it short a while ago. So I'm pretty good at that. We're having a good time. I'm having a good time. So I'm going to hit you with some rapid fire questions. Okay. And just kind of give me your best short answer, bro. Okay.
Speaker 2Give me example of a short answer, Chris.
Speaker 0Okay.
Speaker 2My life is different than yours.
Speaker 0Okay. So maybe keep it under a minute. Okay. Can you do that? Let's give it a second. Okay. I'm not the one I'm counting, but okay. So, rapid fire questions to close. Okay. Mark. What's one decision that that made you millions, like think about the one thing, yes, you wrote a song. But like, what's one decision that made you millions?
Speaker 2This isn't even in the music business. I returned to call. I had no interest in returning. And in the summer of 2003, and you know, if you're looking at this, Wisconsin and music business, you get calls from different areas of the entertainment business, whether it be movies, acting, or in this case, an entertainment new show called Extra. And they called a few times and like, ah, okay, that's not my thing. You know, and then I place the call. to extra of go name Lisa G. And she says, Mark, we'd love you to come down and see what we're doing here and and just love to say hello. And my manager was kind of who's because he knew I would never go down there for an audition long story even longer. I call them go down there. I meet Lisa G. I meet the people at extra I'm on the floor like doing my thing I was so loose I didn't care. Two weeks later, I was hosting extra. I worked there for five years. Yeah. And, you know, it was, of seven figures a year back in 2004, five, two could have meant something. So that called that I didn't even want to make. You never know what's on the other end of that line, especially if someone's interested in you.
Speaker 0make the call just call back you never know where that's really good advice actually so yeah you you took the call that you didn't want to take and that is a very interesting doing something yeah absolutely love that okay next one now what's one mistake that cost you the most there's a few of those we've all got them and they've cost us different they've cost us
Speaker 2Well, I've got one, it's interesting. Here's a guy named Andrew Watt, he's a producer right now, probably the most successful producer in the world is on Rolling Stones, Elton John, Chili Peppers, Justin Beaver. 10 years ago, I was in another band, and Andrew was in a band, and we were in an all-star band. There's a lot of bands going on here. And it became close. He goes, Mark, I'm a big fan of your band. He was a young kid, and he was probably 24, 25. He goes, listen, I'm going to write some songs right now for Justin Beaver, and I want you to get involved. I got a couple songs. You know, and he sent me this, this, this, this demo called sorry, and it was kind of not really all together. And I'm again, I kind of kind of bail, and I'm cool. Dude, you do your thing. I was going to go right to sky right now, come over, and I didn't do it. Now, if I had been in the room there writing that song, Justin Bieber song called Sorry. I probably wouldn't be talking to you in that way, you know what I'm saying? So that's another one I regret and I get these calls a lot like I'd like to write a song with you, you know, and I like our songs really wrote songs we had to, you know, I'm not just a songwriter every day, though I write on my own leisure. So I just kind of bailed on that and it was a big mistake. It was a huge mistake. Now it's the biggest producer song right in the world and, you know, here we are.
Speaker 0Ouch, okay, what do you mean to bring, what do you mean to reopen up that wound?
Speaker 2You know, I'm glad you said you're reminding me not to make that mistake.
Speaker 0That's why we're talking to you. Okay. This is a good one. What's the best advice that you ignored? Best advice that you ignored. Who that's deep bro?
Speaker 2Well, when I graduated from USC, I was kind of lost for a little bit, especially in terms of my dad's regards for me, what my career was going to be. And I was kind of fizzing about what's about what the band, but nothing really in their eyes and playing local parties, nothing real. My dad got me into the Monaco International School of Finance in Mexico, and that's awesome. impossible. We can, can my dad do the Prince of Monaco and all that stuff. We go out there. I state the Lermatage Hotel for like two nights. I meet everybody. My dad gets me apartment a Moni Carlo. It is 1990. You know, it's like the best opportunity ever for anybody. This, I was probably going to marry like a, I, I, I dodged countless or something, I was just this next level. And I remember my dad goes, this is for you, you should do it. And I look my dad and the eyes, and I had a sick feeling to put him in my stomach. And I knew this wasn't for me. I go dad, this just isn't my path, man. I wanna try the band I really do. And the band had zero shot back then. You looked at me in the eyes and you goes, you're 23 years old from my blinder standing, most fans don't get signed after 25. Don't pass this up. Don't pass this opportunity to go to school. and I passed it up. So that was the best advice. It's ironic because it worked out for me, but the odds were gigantic and huge. Where if I go into that school, I think good things would have happened to me.
Speaker 0You know what I mean?
Speaker 2I bet on myself, which I always think everybody should do, but that was some really good advice that I passed on.
Speaker 0It's a high pressure situation to get dead there.
Speaker 2And what, yeah, we were there in Monaco, our homeroom, to Lama College Hotel, overlooking that Monaco GP, you know, my little heart load, you know, course it was just been saying all these yachts and like that like don't you want this? And I realized, Chris, it was his dream. Yeah, not mine.
Speaker 0Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2Years later, I realized that, but it was not mine.
Speaker 0That's good. Yeah, that's a really good way to put that and I try not to do that for like my kids. I think I learned that lesson on kid ones. So think that I had three others to not fuck up. So I got I messed up on the first one on trying to put that on and then I was like, okay, I'm not going to do this. Not going to work.
Speaker 2By the way, you realize your kids are not you. It's the most liberating thing. I see.
Speaker 0I mean that, you know, you have you have you have twins. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have twins.
Speaker 2Yep. Then they'll be 16 next month.
Speaker 0She's so okay listen like I've got a 15-year-old. I boy. You okay, so Yep, you know, I got you. Okay, worst advice you followed and I know you've gotten a lot of bad advice that you've followed. I've everybody's gotten some bad advice if all but what's the what's the worst advice that you that you followed?
Speaker 2I think the worst advice we've followed career wise for sure was we released a record that wasn't ready in 2003 and there was a lot of desperation in the record industry in 2003 because Napster was coming, the industry was falling apart and we had a little bit of like cashier within our label, Atlantic record so they were looking quickly to get some product out, and we were hitting the fourth quarter, which was the big quarter in the industry, because it was the Christmas time. That's one like 60% of all records got sold for the year. So they really fast tracked a record. It wasn't ready. I knew it wasn't ready, and it's basically signaled the end of our commercial career. I don't know how to correct her because then I knew it then and it wasn't ready and our president's like I heard the record It's amazing, but he was trying to save his job and just get product out there volume in his back pocket And it wasn't ready and it's it's probably my least favorite record of all shit array records.
Speaker 0You know you should have said But you should have said y'all want to single say fuck that We were just for
Speaker 1I should have played that for.
Speaker 0Okay, this is my last one for you, this is my last one, then we'll wrap up. Yeah. Thank you for that. But as exactly what I was thinking when you said that.
Speaker 2I was thinking that too, but I was like, where we should have that.
Speaker 0And then you turned to my little fucking single.
Speaker 2Yeah, there was zero. I wish we had one.
Speaker 0Okay, what would you do if you had to start over today? Okay, this is, I love asking this question for what they're some of the contractors, like, because once you've had success and you take it all away, the name, the credibility, the brand equity, the whatever, but you could start over, like you've got, you don't have that today, you know, what do you do? So what would you do today if you had to start over today? But, you know, Martin McGrath is not who Martin McGrath is and sugar is not who sugar is. What would you be doing? But I still want to do music. Anyway, I'm just saying, but you don't have the name to, like now you got, you can't have a name for sure.
Speaker 2Yeah, you can just say you only path towards accessing music today is on TikTok. And having followers on social media, it's the only pass. So I would integrate that obviously, and it'd be my only focus. In fact, I've heard of labels saying, we don't even care about the music so much. How many followers do you have? So it is such a social media world out there. And labels have gotten rid of all the departments. There's no ANR department. There's no artisan department. So you have to do it all along. You have to be completely self-contained unit. But the irony is, and I said it earlier, it's never been easier to become sort of famous and infamous, if you will, on social media, but it's never been harder to stay there. It hasn't been a lot of the acts that have really popped off social media that have stayed there and become the classic acts we've talked about. Now, I'd say it's not gonna happen or isn't happening now, just hasn't yet. So I'd have to educate myself a lot more to the algorithms and how that works in terms of music. Thankfully, that's not part. I mean, social media is part of my business because it has to be like everybody we're talking to right now. But it's not the driving force like what happened to today if I wanted to start all over.
Speaker 0Yeah, that's actually a good point because you hear those like the social media trends and then it's like a song and then it became a thing and then it was gone and then there was no other follow-up to to the song of the clip was Right, and I think a lot of people still think like I'm going to get in a band and go to a club and someone's got to find me there's no more in our guy
Speaker 2There's no department to go find you. You gotta go find them. So it makes it so, it makes it really difficult. But you can also get a lot more fast foody, meaning you can bite the poison apple and do something that you're not willing to do to get more followers and eyes on you. But if that's not who you are, it's gonna, it's gonna crumble in front of you. It's not gonna last. So it's a very slippery slope right now for it's more than ever.
Speaker 0Well, let me just tell you this. I think that's actually very relatable because you mean social media is a thing, it's not going away, it's going to be coming used and used more and it's actually becoming harder because you have to keep somebody's interest in like, you know, a half a second to get to one second, to get you to three seconds to keep it entertaining. But you can, like, you can become successful if you can figure out those algorithms and put your stuff out there and do it over and over again. But you still got to have the same discipline that you have when you are building and trying to create sugar ray on that path to the same discipline of going out and grinding and networking and doing all things and shaking the hands and going out and putting on great shows, even when there's three people then doing it again, doing it. It's the same thing. It's just now you got to do it in this technology space to continue to scale. Oh, and by the way, you might have to do both. If you're on the road, you're going to
Speaker 2You've been at the infrastructure built in. You've been at all the qualities and characters that we talked about because you're going to be a hot tour. You know, you go out, you have some weird moment, you need to even plan for, and you're a multi-million dollar industry. But you don't, there's not enough there to sustain it. You know what I'm saying? And that was just some girl walking out of the bar. It's given a multi-million dollar thing. And then they tried to play catch up, but that the infrastructure wasn't there. Or the will wasn't there. Or the passion wasn't there. Whatever was there. So it's interesting. You can get famous overnight, but it's really a smart thing. You said Chris, you better have everything in place, man, or it will crumble my friends.
Speaker 0Yep, it's just like business. You got to have a good team around you to sustain the business to help do the things that you're not good at, you know, consistently, you know, even when it's hard. And then you have a responsibility of taking care of them to make sure they want to continue to work for you to do the hard things and sustain the business. Like all this stuff is this is just business.
Speaker 2I think I'm so glad you said that Chris and I I'm sorry to interrupt you because like a lot of times I get a lot of the attention on sugar eggs on the guy with your hair and the front man and all that and that's kind of part of the gig But it took a team to make this success all the guys who have been in sugar ray were all responsible in the success of sugar ray are producers management It really was a village building sugar ray. I've learned from so many people and I'm only here talking to you because of others. I'm grateful now that I can still do what I do, but it really took a team to make this happen. There was no oasis, no ol' Gallagher song, right at right to all the songs. There was no Johnny Resnick. It was a real team doing this thing. Some guys didn't have the passion to keep doing any more, and I understand that. We talked about that earlier. Passion and driving, and wanting to do it. But I would never, ever, downplay the valuable, every member of Sugar Ray has been and was to the success.
Speaker 0Do you hear? Still doing the thing, I love that, miss, the 1998 people that sexy is barely here.
Speaker 2People used to pay to see me take my shirt off. I think some change. Well, this time says undefeated.
Speaker 0This was fun. I appreciate you give me the time and it doesn't mean a lot to me to you and you said so many nice things I really do appreciate that and it's and you guys can kind of listen get to get the vibe of people like how to help Just we just it just clicked it just worked like we just we just hit it off. It was easy But but I think what it all boils down to and I can see like the the relation to all the up the success I think that This is an easy success story and even though it's 2026, you're still out doing things and like staying relevant and maybe it's in a different scale, but there's plenty that don't aren't at all like at all. And that comes back to, I think, the way that you treat people. And the way that you are open and that you have manners, like you said at the very beginning, like all these things are what make you such a likeable guy. And the good news is, is that you put on a hell of a show and you're entertaining. And you've got the two things, like you have two of those things. You can keep somebody entertained, but at the same time you're also thoughtful. I hired an artist to come and play our Christmas party one year. That was excited to have a country artist. And I'm going to put his name out there. Um, but I was excited to meet him backstage backstage with such a let down that I thought differently about that artist so and I was Did it ruin the show for you? Chris a little bit. It was it was it. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2A little bit because I was thinking like you just said everything right there You just said everything and imagine that just an exchange of like and by the you're not to be like hey man It's already just again How you doing? Thanks for having me.
Speaker 0That couldn't be the exchange, right? It was awkward. It was different and it made me think because what I was seeing Was it matching what I thought was the person yeah, and then and then you on the flip side was like oh This is exactly what I would think that Mark Regrath would be like and so but do that pressure For that Chris that means the world to me.
Speaker 2I hope you know that. I mean I don't want to bore your your viewers You listen, but I just that means the world, you know, and when you're like we said it I got a friend for life, man, and that's, you know, my age, you can have more friends and your contacts than doctors, you're in a good spot, you know?
Speaker 0Well, so I want to close the sucker out the night. I appreciate Kim and I come on here, Mark, and share it there by a two and take your time. I appreciate that super cool. And it's our listeners, you know, hopefully you found that if it's nothing else to entertain, I always love hearing the stories and some of the things. And the real point of it is there's gotta be some key to this success regardless of what industry that you're in. And I think I uncovered what yours is. And that's something that you can apply in any business. So like, you got no fucking excuse, like you can do these things. because there's a lot of people that are willing to work hard. But how are you treating me? Sure. So to our listeners, anything else I hope that you was exciting, you know, and leave comments.
Speaker 2Yes, thank you. Thank you all for listening. I appreciate you putting up with me, man.
Speaker 0Thank you, Chris. And listen, as I always say, like some we can we went over a bunch of different things, you know, but here's what I'll leave you guys with us. You don't got to do everything, but you got to do something. No perfect. Zero days.
