Speaker 1What's the password?
Speaker 0Don't talk about it. Be about it.
Speaker 1Welcome in to the two-of-the-point home services VIP room. Where we invite you, the listeners in to hang alongside some of the biggest, baddest and most successful VIPs of the home services industries. You never know, it surprised guests will show up next. So let's get this party started.
Speaker 6Hey, what's up, home service hippies? It's your boy Chris Loneko, who's chatty in AG. Guys, do I look like I'm getting slimmer to you? Can you tell him my face?
Speaker 3No, you do look a little bit. For sure.
Speaker 5You do look like you do look a little slimmer, but you look like a guy that's about to come out on the other side. I was going to ask for a result, baby.
Speaker 6I was going to ask if I had the Tom Brady jawline.
Speaker 3I don't see that appearing at any time sitting there, Bob. Well, you keep a positive outlook.
Speaker 6Your camera sucks. I think you can't, your computers will look as crisp as mine. So if it was crisp, where you could see a picture, like, you know, it's really sizzled. Chris, I think the internet makes you look thin. Is that? Thank you, it's very slimming on me. What's interesting, man, is like, you know, I mean, as a recordingist podcast, I mean, week five of six weeks worth of treatment. So I'm like getting really, really close. I have no facial hair. So I can't, my face, seven, I losing here on my head, but losing all the hair on my face. And I lost all my nose hair. Let me tell you how annoying it is to lose all your nose hair. Because your nose is running, those little hairs stop it from just coming out constantly. Like, so I wake up in the morning, probably like, you know, little peat does with the snaddy nose, you know, all crusty. I wake up in the morning, I'm like, damn it. I got a crusty nose again, even with the humidifier on, it's weird not having any nose hair. So I don't know how long it's about to take all the shit to come back. But between me getting so much skinnier, I'm down 22 pounds and having no facial hair, it's weird to look at myself in the mirror. So, but we're getting through it. I'm in the home stretch man, so that's good news. That said, I do think that I came up with a good idiom on the way in today too. I thought that was pretty fitting. Part of the struggle for me too is just, you know, when you go through this treatment, you have mouth source and like I've got a bunch of them right now, which also makes it complicated to swallow, which also makes it complicated to talk. So I've spent the last probably, like, four or five days, not talking very much, which is very abnormal for me. Mainly because every time I talk, you and I have to swallow more and the more I have to swallow the more it hurts. So it sounds weird, but like it's like if you had stripped throat and you swallow and it hurts her time you swallow, that's how every swallow feels like to me right now.
Speaker 5so it's pretty gnarly.
Speaker 6But I want to introduce our guest real quick and then I'll hit our idiom and then we'll just jump right into it. It actually was really cool when I was was researching the company Bobby just about the deep history that the business has. It's been around for a hot minute.
Speaker 2Yeah, seven years, 73 years.
Speaker 6Yeah and which is I love multi-generational businesses too and like I love that the old like these really old businesses have such cool stories. You guys got a killer picture on your about us paired the company page and like I think 90% of just a mustache, by the way. That was in the early 1970s that picture was. Yeah, well, here I was rocking the stashes. They were looking out. Yeah, they were looking good. But we have Bobby Green on today, who's a president CEO of Marin DePUe, co-down or up in, I guess, North Jersey. I guess you guys kind of cover central and North Jersey.
Speaker 2Yeah, we're about 10 minutes outside of North Careport and central and Northern New Jersey as our market. Who else did we just interview that was up that way? Rich Bogdett was on this office as less than a mile from mine. We could probably put it down a joint show together. And I'm not that helped me before, but guaranteed services in our market as well. So we appreciate you recognizing the quality of the contract and jersey market.
Speaker 6I don't know how the hell that happened, but it's just coincidental. That was not planned, but all right. Well, I guess you've seen what you hear about your other competitions doing in the market. So there you go. There you go. Thank you for that. Yeah, well, um, I guess last year, I think you guys were 12 million. You're going to pay some 14 million this year just to kind of get to list through some context. Um, and we'll jump into a little bit of that too, but I just want to say real quick, Abby, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2Thank you. I appreciate that, Chris. Um, it was a pleasure meeting you a few months ago out in Beverly Hills and, uh, getting to know you a little bit better and working with. Some of you for organization and seeing how we, and I spoke to some of the other guys in my group, Hugh and Jason and stuff, really enjoyed getting to get to learn more about the podcast and seeing what you guys are doing. Thank you.
Speaker 6Yeah, that was funny. That was that Eagles Nasty event guys that I went out to and Hollywood. That was like Rusty and Guy from John from Estus was on there. Like there's just a great group of guys, but I Bobby was there as well. Well, I want to just talk about this idiom real quick and you guys will see that this one fits, but this one is under the weather. Under the weather y'all have heard that term before, right? Anybody want to take a crack or you think the origination of under the weather comes from.
Speaker 2Aviation flying under the weather.
Speaker 6Nope.
Speaker 3That was going to be my guess.
Speaker 5No, okay, I let it go. I already have a good guess for this one.
Speaker 6I would I wouldn't have got it either the I thought aviation as well that one met like, oh, I just figured like your legit literally flying under the weather But I guess maybe it doesn't work that way with aviation Well, it's usually it's usually over the weather.
Speaker 3Don't think I try to Try to climb the out through the storm and we're gonna have to fly higher
Speaker 6Yeah, that's awesome. And we clearly wouldn't be good pilots. So the actual origination just comes from, well, I mean, for those who have ever done to Iraq and don't actually have never heard the idiom before, what it actually means if you're fatigued, or you're feeling ill, you just don't feel good, you're under the weather. But the actual term is a nautical term from the 1700s and where it's the, you know, a six sailor because of the storms and all the stuff up on deck, they'd make them go under the deck. So that way they're under and out of the weather to try and feel better. So they'd make them go under the ship. So it's actually under the deck is where this whole thing originated from back in 1700s. So there you go, the more you're featuring that, the more you know. Now you can go share that with all your friends.
Speaker 3I think Chris pointed to something really cool as I was reading through the notes, some of these companies that have been around forever in a day have such interesting stories and how they've kind of transitioned and all of that stuff. So I guess they kick it off is Bobby, give us a little bit of this history of the company and how it's kind of moved along the generations.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's kind of an interesting story, like you said. It's two guys, Bob Meyer and Jim DePue served in the army together. When they get out of the army, they went to work for the local carrier distributor here in New Jersey. At that time, it was a company called Montgomery Engineering out of Jersey City in New Jersey. And they worked there for a couple of years and they decided, you know, why don't we get into this business? So they started and they formed Meyer and DePue company. And I'm frequently asked, a site up for seminar going to a meeting, oh, are you guys a law firm or accounting firm? No, not work, or HFAC, but you know, with a 73 year old name, you don't change it. All right? I certainly wouldn't have named the name, the company that, but we've got to stop what's brand in the market place. That's not changing. But they started back in 1953, 1961, I was three weeks old, and my father began working for the company. He had grown up in Minnesota, and began working for a guy in Fairmont, Minnesota, who's last name was Schmidt, known to company called Schmidt Sheet Medal. And he worked there, and their Sheet Medal shop and got interested in that. Served in the Army in New Jersey, met my mom, my mom grew up in New Jersey, He met her at a dance. My mom swears that she had to have a note from her parish priest to testing to her. Good moral character so that she could get on the bus at the YMCA that was taken here to the dance. But that's where they met. So they settled in New Jersey. And my dad worked for a couple of HFAC companies, one RF Stangle and Son and Hillside. And then eventually went to work for my R&D Pew. Fast forward, Mr. DePue retired in 1966 and my father became Mr. Meyer's right hand man in the mid and late 70s and then the late 70s Mr. Meyer wanted to retire my father. was approached by Mr. Meyer about buying them out and they got together with another guy. It was a kind of a shotgun marriage. My father saw Mr. Meyer's struggle without a partner after his partner retired and said to Mr. Meyer, you know, I really like to find a partner. So Mr. Meyer helped him find one. It was a guy named Al, Al had been a TM with a local carrot distributor and he and my father came together and bought Mr. Meyer out back in 1979. They were great, they were a great pair, because my father was a technician's technician. He was very technical, very organized, and how was the salesperson? So the company was engaged primarily in commercial work back then, maybe 85% commercial, 15% residential. And how would it go out and sell the project? My father would manage it and make sure it went in and they made money on it and that kept going. They started to get into service. And they fought about the value of service agreements and whether service was worth the hassle. My father worked on an early IBM XT and got a spreadsheet going and departmentalized the financial statement and improved that, you know, what the gross margin in service is a lot higher than the gross margin in this commercial construction work. And the company evolved. So I went to work for the two of them in 1981. We had probably about 20 employees then, four service technicians. And the company was just starting to get into service. My dad and his partner later in their careers got a little opposite one another, I'll say, had different goals. My father's partner, Al, was looking to get out from the day he got in. My father was looking for a longer term thing. Long story short, it was a pretty stressful environment for me for a lot of reasons. And I told my father, I was going to look to leave the company. And I did, I left the company for four years from 1994 to 1998. And I went to work for a company called Traletamp, which is a zone control manufacturer based right here in New Jersey for a guy named Dick Foster and Dick brought me in. And I eventually became as national sales manager, and I worked there for four years. I was tremendous experience there. I was in and out of contractors all over the country. In and out of wholesalers all over the country, I got to know so many people, some of the different levels of the industry. Manufacturers, distributors, et cetera. Many of whom was today I still have a relationship with. But then, in 1998, my father called me up to say this, and I'm going to buy my partner out. Would you like to come back and become my partner? And I said, yeah, sure, I'd love to do that. So that was 1998, came back. My father retired 1999, my sister, who was 11 months younger than me, passed away, unexpectedly. She had had Any health problems throughout our life should had three kidney transplants, one for me, one from non-living donor and one from our brother, and she kind of suddenly, and that changes my changed my parents life. Your kids are supposed to bury you, you're not supposed to bury them. And a lot started slowing down a little bit, and I didn't blame him. He said, life too short. So he officially retired a few years later, I began buying him out and he passed away in 2011. And I was just about done buying him out. I continued to pay my mom for the business and now I own the business. We've got about 50 employees. My son is our service manager, Tom. He's been in the company for about 15 years. My wife works in the finance team. And that's only family, just my wife and my son, I don't know, Chad or Iron, how many family members you've ever worked with, but it's a, it's a challenge sometimes. You know, when my dad and I were working together, I was living in his house, getting up in the morning, having breakfast with him, getting his his car, he'd make me drive the two of us to work. go to work, work them all day long, get back in his car, drive him home, have dinner together, those were long days. We spent a lot of time together, but learned a lot from him. I'm sorry, that's kind of a long explanation of all that. I hope that worked out.
Speaker 3No, the tons of stuff, I appreciate you sharing that with you having worked with your dad and now working with your son like what were some of the things you may have learned working with your dad that you've you've tried to do differently working with your son maybe outside of the drawing making him drive you to work making him drive you home all that's I imagine that's a little different.
Speaker 2Yeah, you know, I made sure my son got a lot more well-rounded experience, I explained it and I don't mean to blame my dad for any of the career path that I had, but I later learned from his partner that they had struggled over what my role should be in the company and where I should be. and his partner, I'll tell me he says, I saved you, I said, what do you mean you saved me? He says, your father wanted you to work in the field and develop a good understanding of the technical end of the business. I wanted you to go right into the sales and finance end, so I saved you for that. And I said, well, you know, I wish I had had that experience, I've never worked as a technician, but 45 years in the company. I know an awful lot from Osmosis and from being exposed to it. But my son made sure he, his first job was working in the field. So he's been on commercial installations. He's been on residential installations. That was where he cut his teeth. And then he's worked into the office kind of in an IT special projects, whatever I want them to do, kind of guy. And we promoted him to service manager this past February. We got about 12 service technicians that he's leading that team now. So that's probably the biggest difference got all that well-rounded experience. But there's a lot of things my dad shared with me that I've shared with my son in a positive way, too. I was 20 years old when I started working in the company and began socializing with some of the co-workers and stuff. And I got cautioned that, you know, you can't be their friend at night and weekends and be their supervisor or to distance yourself and put yourself in proper positions so you don't get jammed up. Things like that, you know, and that's kind of the old school side of my dad, you know, I'm 65, so I'm the old school guy in my company too. Next generation's got a different viewpoint on a lot of things as you all know. You guys would probably closer to my son's age.
Speaker 4Maybe.
Speaker 5Maybe no, I'm I'm I'm not going to be closer to your son, JJ.
Speaker 4But I'm struggling. It's just skin moisturizer that I've been using for the last decade. It has helped me out. Thank you.
Speaker 6I think Chad, don't even it's going to fall on your son's age. I'm 47. All right.
Speaker 5Yeah, I'm a year officially older than And Chris over here. So yeah, no. I'm 39. Actually, you don't think it's got, yeah, Chad, Chad's a young guy in this group over here.
Speaker 2My son's 36. So we'll let Chad and him together. You're all the same, Chad. Yeah.
Speaker 5Yeah. Actually, I think that's interesting topic. I think we said something here is like the younger generation. We think that they don't want to work or they're stuff going on. Actually, it's kind of interesting. I had a similar conversation with a lot of my management. I said, I think we have the old school mentality that we think we had. But I wonder if the people when we were coming up in the trades thought the same thing about us, that's the reason why they treated us like they did.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 5They thought we weren't going to get the work done. So they were like, You know, I know the language and the, you know, I come from, you know, around that time when that transit was still pretty rough, right, and the field like there's a lot of feelings about how you felt about doing anything, but so, um, but I think they felt the same way just so we're candy. I think that we have to really be honest with ourselves and go, whether you're yelling at us this way, because they didn't think we were going to do the work the way they did. And we start reflecting on this. There's probably more truth to that than not. And we're going to just get in this rhythm. I think there's many young people that are very excited to work today. I mean, we have a lot of them. Our workforce is very young right now. But I think there is still a disconnect, obviously, every generation. There's a little bit different, right? But there is a giant workforce. I think that does doesn't want to work, but I think from this time from like historical part of your business and bringing that cultural way through to this younger generation, how are you does achieving that? Like as you're thinking about this, because you have a lot of deep history in this business, right? Yeah, there's a lot of family, just like Chad, I think has deep history with his dad starting the business and then doing it, you know, I started this business, so I have the only deep history I have is me. Yeah, to be frank. So how do you guys kind of carry that through culturally wise? Because that's generation over generation now.
Speaker 2I mean, we're talking lots of generation involvement that was that was something that was I'm going to say thrust upon me when my dad passed away. I realized. Wow, there's all this weight on my shoulders now. And I'm fortunate to have a couple of guys on my team. One has worked there a lot more than me by six months. He's been there for 46, 45 years and six months. And then another guy has been there for 42 years. He's the last two guys in the company outside my family that knew my dad and they know what he stood for. Um, he wasn't the only one to say this, but he was the first one I heard to say a job worth doing the job worth doing right. Um, he always said, why is it we never seem to have time to do it right the first time, but we always have time to go back and do it right the second time. I think we get that master. So, The other thing that's changed in my approach to things over the years, I used to be more of that manager guide leadership guide. And that's the part that I'm trying to pass on to leadership team and to our supervisor's now. You can't get away with because I said so. You have to help people understand why what they're doing is part of the greater good and how we're all And that's what I'm trying to instill in art people. Also, very good friends with the Ray Isaac, I'm sure you guys will know Ray. Ray told me what he does that did at his company when he was active there and I practice this to this day. He says, Bobby, I don't get involved in all the stuff that goes on with every single employee. I see an employee back in the shop at the end of the day or in the shop at the beginning of the day or start their day there. Hey, how's it going? What'd you do today? Did you have fun? What can I do to help you? And that's as far as I get, whereas I used to look at, hey, that truck seems pretty dirty. Why don't you wash that? Or why isn't your uniform shirt tucked in? Or why don't you do your paperwork? That's not my job. That's the job of the supervisors and others in the company. So I'm trying to create that culture that my dad had created in our company of, Hey, he was a hell of a guy. It's what the people who work with him say about him now and about the things he did to influence them and leave them in a positive way. So I'm trying to follow in those footsteps, but you know what it took me a long time to realize how to do that and actually.
Speaker 3You know, how do you, you know, so you've got a couple of what sound like guys been there for 40 plus years and then you've got, you know, your son who's coming in obviously probably has some different ideas on things and so on and so forth. I'm sure there's other aspects of your leadership team like outside of kind of. Essentially empowering your leaders to go handle the problems and you not getting involved in it how else do you try to like because I think this is a big thing right it's everybody trying to figure out how do I get this leadership team to work Especially with all these different generations and different perspectives and what we used to do it this way, but now we're going to do it this way like how have you found success in getting everyone to kind of Row in the same direction for lack of a better term.
Speaker 2Well, I think that starts with clear expectations. It's kind of basic in that regard. Here's the outcome I'd like to see. Tell me how you want to do it. As opposed to me dictating the process, and dictating the steps to take to achieve the outcome. My son reminds me, our director of operations, reminds me of a time. Hey. Appreciate your input. We got this. So let us do it. And that's still an adjustment for me. But that's it really is believing in them and powering them. I'm sorry from kind of regurgitating stuff Chad, but I feel like. I've just kind of turned it over to them, that's what I mean. I'm worried about the minutiae anymore. I just participate in two hours of supervisors meetings by his room before I got on a news call. And I do a lot of listening, and I throw a couple questions in here and there for clarification, but the teams handling stuff are pretty well themselves. So that's an adjustment.
Speaker 3for sure. I think that's hard for anyone who's been, you know, you've been in the business for a while. You've made a lot of decisions that have been impactful and now it's like turning it over. And I think you said a really important thing that I know I myself have to learn is asking great questions. Like, How do we get them to discover these things? Because I'm not like a questions person. I'm like, well, no, this is kind of what we need to do. Like, we should have seen this thing, this thing, this thing, like, let's go do it. And I think that that's something that we all can be reminded of. I think not quite, quite frequently, which I think is good. One of the other things I was thinking about when you were telling your story is like, you've got like this, You've got this brand that has a ton of like brand recognition. And I think there's a lot of people who probably listen and, you know, they have older companies who've been around for a long time. Like, how do you guys kind of in that market kind of lean into that brand? Like, and I guess this is more like a marketing question. Like, what are you guys doing to like, you know, obviously it's been around for a long time, but, you know, not everybody's heard of it or whatever it may be. How do you guys kind of tackle that?
Speaker 2Yeah, first of all, our branding is associated with my son Tom and I. Previously, we did a live action television commercials done with done radio. We're now transitioning to cartoon-based characters for some of our TV advertising, which is a whole another thing. Somehow I got blonde hair in that scenario. I don't sure how that happened. I got hair, which was good. Our tagline is generations of comfort, generations of trust. So we try to promote the fact that we have generations of customers. This is a great story. We just replaced somebody's air conditioning system in the last month. And he shared with us the proposal that we gave him in 1972, where we took his warm air furnace and added air consumed to it. So we had to change the blower motor route. We had to add a fan center. We did a 100-amp panel change out. The total cost of the job, including the electrical work, was $1572. With the electrical work being $145, that $1572. So if you look up inflation compounded on since 1972, we were within $50 of what the number should be now. It was $16,000 to be as far as NAC now. So I was shocked at that with all the inflation that we've seen in our business and all the effects of COVID. shortages and tariffs and all that, that we weren't way out of line and that, but I digress. So we focus on the fact that we've served as generations of customers, and we focus that we're multi-generational as well. That's why it's me, to the other. And one day that's going to make for a smooth hand off to him and whoever comes up with him to be the next generation of We're doing a lot of digital. We were out of cable TV for a couple of years. We're just getting back to it. We've done radio. We're working with Chris's team doing direct mail. We're doing a little bit of everything. The stuff that probably gets us the most is the stuff that is going to say brand awareness building so that people would remember us when they have a problem. We also, I personally monitor probably about two dozen social media sites that are community based like this town's community pays that town's community page and there's always somebody saying hey who can you recommend for American she who can you recommend for that and very briefly one of my clients says hey if I recommend miren to you and they tag me so I get that message and I'll respond back hey thanks for the shout out Sue thanks for the referral and hey Betty if if you're interested you know we've been a business we've served your community for 73 years we've got 1500, five star reviews on Google. I'm sure those are patents to what you guys have. But, you know, we'd be happy to help you and put a link to our website. And we get a fair amount of business doing that. And that's just organic almost.
Speaker 3Yeah, that's awesome. A real quick.
Speaker 6A real quick, real quick. I'm not in the direct mail game. I just say, you know, what he meant to say was email marketing. Yeah, he works listening to email marketing. Excuse me, I didn't mean to say that. It was a 40 and slip by apologizing. I mean, I think that being phased. I can see that being phased two of that down the road. I just want to know, so how people reach out to me, so I'll do that.
Speaker 5That just turned into a new pitch, got it. All right, got it.
Speaker 3Let's see what you did there.
Speaker 5Yeah.
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Speaker 2No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no We went down this road a couple of years ago. We were approached by a young electrician who said, hey, I'm familiar with a company. I'm looking to partner up with someone would you be interested in talking to me? So I sat down and talked to this guy. Super smart, very good reputation. Broaden men, so listen, let's get to know each other. I'd love to have you bring your license to our business and you start with an electrical division. And unfortunately, it took about a year before it fell apart. And he is a great guy, I'm not a bad-mouthing him or my involvement with him, but he had a different way of doing business than I did. For example, he was working as our electrician, and we were dispatching him like a service technician, go from home to the job and fish at the day and go back. He wanted to come in the shop every morning, and he wanted to come in the shop every morning, and he wanted to come in the shop every morning, and he wanted to come in the morning, and he wanted to come in the morning, and he wanted to come in the morning, and he wanted to come in the morning, and he wanted to come in the morning, and he wanted to come in the morning, and he wanted to come in the morning, and he wanted to come in the morning, and he wanted to come in the morning, and he wanted to come in the morning, and he wanted to come in the morning, and he wanted to come in the morning, and he wanted to come in the morning, and he have a little discussion, then go to the supply house pick up as materials and arrive with the first call around 930 10 o'clock and he actually, he just said, this isn't for me, I'm not going to do this. So I guess, you know, a little gun shy, I've got to get back into that and maybe we can have a conversation offline. I would love your suggestions on best way to jump into that, the best way to find the right partner for that. And you jersey, it's a licensing mess as well. Electricals easier than plumbing and pletting. And you jersey, the plumbing, a license holder has its own 10% of the company. So, most people are doing a set up side company that you own, the other guy wants to 10% of them. They've done the same thing with HVAC, but for some reason, electrical doesn't have to do that. It's kind of a regulatory bureaucratic mess in New Jersey, but that's my answer. We've tried. We didn't get very far with it.
Speaker 1We needed to do it again because that's where the growth is.
Speaker 2That's it. My. I was very active in Acca. I was in the National Chairman of Acca back in 2013. So always been part of an Acca mixed group management information exchange peer group, or do we want to call? And I've seen so many of the companies in those groups do so well expanding into these other trades. So we're definitely going to do it.
Speaker 3But definitely can't tell you how to do it correctly. But I can tell you a whole host of ways to not do it correctly. I've got a playbook on that and it goes a mile long. I hope to report that. I'm getting to you.
Speaker 5It's a hard thing to do. I think it's hard to think that's why I bring it up. I don't think it's never not necessary. It gets to depends on what your goals are. Right? If you have a great business that builds, you know, can create jobs and and support for families and support your family and your business. It doesn't need to be bigger. The bigger isn't always necessary, better by the way. In many ways, I might be over here. preaching on something I don't know because we're always trying to grow right but at the same time it's not always better and it's not always necessary there's great businesses that run your size that do great for the community great for their families good for the people so it's it's not I don't think it's necessary and they're not really going away they're not going to get all consolidated up either non-family businesses right is there opportunity those family businesses to join join something Yeah, is our opportunity still to grow in a market? Yeah, but I think it just depends on what again, I think this always comes out of what market share do you already own of the trade you do now is they're more available to yes or no if there's not then yes you should think about adding them another trade. To secure yourself a little bit, people are always going to sometimes use single trade businesses because they like that, and especially a company. I think that has the historical connection that you do from the trade, but but I do think that it does start to get easier for people to use multi trade businesses, right. And now, did they add HVC and are they taking some of my market share from HVC, right? So I think this is all that kind of conversation, but I think the major thing is, as always, is where are you in your market share of the trade you are to y'all, right? And I don't know how big the Jersey area. I know Jersey itself has a lot of people. I don't know the area that you are in. You can grow that, you know, is that a $20 million
Speaker 2You know, Aaron, you make great points and my father always told me there's nothing we can't do but plenty we shouldn't in terms of defining our work, particularly as it relates to commercial commercials this, you know, behemoth, we do about 10 or 15% of our workers commercial. But in that there's so much that we don't want to touch, we don't get a new construction, we're doing it just that's replacement and add on stuff. I always say, too, that we got to get, I want to be really good at age track before I add another one. And maybe this is our 73rd summer. I'm thinking just a few more, we'll get the hang of that. We'll get more. The move on and something else. But we evolve. We evolve. I'm, I'm not like your typical guest here in the show, Chris. I'm not the guy that's doing 40, 50 million dollars, or I like to hang out with those folks, people because you become who you hang out with. So let me hang out with these guys today.
Speaker 5Look, I don't think that's always the thing. I mean, I think it's good to hear from everybody, because I think sometimes people want to hear, it's good, you know, I think we get caught in these hundred million, 50 million, whatever businesses. But the reality is most of the businesses that are operating are 10 to 20 in below that, actually really below that. And they need to hear what you guys are doing now on that journey. You know, I think Chris, our chat and I always talk about this. We enjoy next hour, like, somebody had a 10 million, a 20 million, like, those are good businesses. look that wrong. That's you have a $10 million business. Like growing a $10 million business in a plus market or 14 you're on your way to do this year. That's a hell of a achievement, regardless. That's the achievement. You own $14 million a revenue in a market. That gets undervalued sometimes when we hear a lot of these larger businesses that have grown over time. And I get it to help push the idea for people to grow. But I don't know if it's always necessary for everybody. You know, I think people just have to appreciate a 15 million or 20 million dollar business as a as a solid business like that says that's a great business to be operating and growing and has a lot of opportunity and there's challenges that 10 million I imagine you've seen and you want to go to 20 is it's it's it's all management right so management at that point it's managing managers and now you're now your managing managers more than ever Is can I develop any other leaders or any other managers and then what is scalability look like is there more market? Do I understand my marketing messages? Can I generate more leads for the trade already do is you know all these things are in that next level right and that's a push That's a significant push really that you get that 10 to 12 the 14 you want to flip at that 20 there's some additional a lot of work to get that other $6 million
Speaker 2No doubt. And I appreciate you recognizing that, you know, 14 million still a decent size business. You mentioned next are, and I got to say that we joined next are just about a year ago. A year ago, this month out of home. I tried getting into the next are for over 10 years and Rich Bogda and Dan Welman were the two next are contractors in our market, there was, there was no room for me to join. So when Dan sold his company to private equity and and next door said, hey, if you're private equity here, you're, we're sun setting you. There was an opportunity for me to get in and rich bug to call me up and said, hey, Bobby, I know you've been trying to get in, not your time. So I got in and we jumped right in. We were at the super meeting in September. And we've done a bunch of training since then. Everyone in the organization's been training customer service experience people, sales people, service technicians. It's probably had one of the biggest impacts in our business in a long time. And I think my role, is kind of a cheerleader for those processes. I think somebody on one of these podcasts recently said something about, yeah, tell me how those processes don't work and I'll probably show you a company that's not doing as well as a company who's following those processes. Was that one of you guys that said that recently? I think so. But some smart I'd probably say, but yeah, all right, I appreciate what that's that's where I'm I kind of like doing it this way so we I'm on the sales manager of my company so I've four sales people one residential city one commercial and three residential and our closing rates aren't where they need to be and I weekly meeting, we review all of that and showing you to get some next-door benchmark. So, you know, well, with the next-door benchmark, why am I guys? The people who have fallen the next day of process are achieving. This is the minimum benchmark. We're not hitting the minimum benchmark. So this is the upscale upside potential that we have is the white site before jumping into plumbing and electric, which I know very little about relative to the HVAC. Let me get really good at this. So I've got something that's running on all eight cylinders. There's just one of those radiums for you. It's running on all eight cylinders. And then I can feel more comfortable
Speaker 3What, so this is one of our, guys, correct me if I get this question wrong, but I think Bobby given your experience and tenure in the industry, you would be perfect to answer this one. So one of the questions we always ask is, what do you think in your mind, what's broke in this industry that no one wants to admit?
Speaker 2Yeah, I heard Rich Bogg is the answer to this, and I thought he was spot on, but broke, but no one wants to admit other than what Rich said about people. I think it's that we've allowed the, we haven't done it as good a job as we should as an industry in elevating the perception of our industry. We allow people to tell us that I can buy that part on Amazon for $40, why are you charged me $300? We allow people to say, well, he's $4,000 cheaper and maybe that's because not enough people are embracing Not applying enough self-worth to their company, you know, we did what, um, next or calls the, the one truck exercise and we had done that similarly, we, we had done similar exercises like that with our company in the past, but not in the detail that they did, and just for the listeners that might not know what that is, that's, um, we broke all of our employees in the room down to six groups. came a big post-it-known in a wall in a marker and said, okay, you're setting up your service department, and you're going to figure out what the hourly rate should be based upon all the costs of operating business. You got a half hour ahead. And one group came up with over $500 an hour for their flat rate, and so I think the lowest group was $125 for the flat rate. So obviously the $500 one was a lot more realistic than the 125, but then we showed them all the expenses that go into it that they didn't remember. and we said to him, this is so that you can, when customers talk into you and say, oh my god, I can buy that on Amazon. Listen, you're not buying from Amazon. Do you know what cost that goes into operating this? You know, 50% of the sign price is the cost of the labor and materials that go into. That's 40% of the cost of having an ongoing business and 10% profit. been successful in convincing the consumer that there's more to us than the Joe six pack mentality that some people assigned to us. You know, we're responsible for awful lot of important things of people's homes and that's just on the HVAC side. Those that are doing plumbing electric are responsible for just about the rest of them so.
Speaker 3the degree more. I think you're spot on with that. I think it's something that we all have to work together. I think the thing that pains me the most is like seeing on social media when people are like tearing others down in the industry. Like what are we talking about guys? Like we're all working at this together. Well you're too high priced. Well you do this. It's like hey guys, we've all got to consumers are going to continue to think that we're not worth what we think we should be worth. Like, this is a highly skilled trade. Like, why shouldn't each fact tech or a plumber be looked at in the same respect as a doctor lawyer? Like, I always tell my guys, I said, here's a deal. My job is to create a space where you can be at your best because, frankly, a doctor Yeah, or it's going to be really uncomfortable to do that. So again, think highly of yourselves and we've all got to work together to bring up the perception in this industry as a whole.
Speaker 2Try calling your doctor's office on a Sunday afternoon and getting him to respond to your house and hour later and it's not happening.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 5Yeah, I'm sure, right? Like it's your personal health and it takes you weeks to get an answer, right? And you can, you know, home service provider out, that's running an excellent business or has the ability the same day or within 24 hours, right? To take your air condition, heating and, you know, a lot of customers are plumbing, right? So I agree. I do think that's a great message there. The one truck exercise is a great exercise, breaking down 40, 50, 10. I think that's great. Appreciate you sharing that on here because I think that's important for people to understand that and I do think like for me like I start as a plumber in the trade that's spent a lot of time learning this trade and it's not easy it's hard work and I think that everybody should be deserves to be paid fairly to do this work it's a specialized trade and specialized knowledge and I do think that times there's probably a lot of the misalignment on pricing, modeling in this industry between competition and just individuals doing the work. And I think that does not help bring up the trade to chat point when we just bash each other in the industry. There's a fair area to have debate about where that line is. I think it's a fair debate, right, for sure. But I think just bringing down all the each other that are just tradespeople trying to You know, learn to trade, operate, teach people to trade, give jobs to people, all these things is it's challenging enough right nor less to be in that world. So I think that's a great a great point to bring up.
Speaker 2You know, my dad sent me to a seminar early on in my career was up. Well, how to run a contracting business. So it was conducted by Carrier. It was a three-day seminar. And it was run by a guy named Stu Docter, who was a business development guy at Carrier. And long story short, with the first exercise he did, was everyone went out of room and said, what are you doing here company? How long are you working there? And he said, this is going to be great. Thank you guys for all of Van Rins. You're all, you know, they're all, I've been here for 22 years. I sold $75,000 last week. Hope I will. Good, here's the exercise. We're going to price up a job. Open your books, here's a list of all the costs of the labor and materials. Refer to a French, financial statement, I'll show you what his overhead is. Everyone take out a pen in the paper and write down a piece of paper of what your selling price is for that job. And we went around the room and no one got the right price because they didn't understand the difference with your mark up in March. And they didn't, they just couldn't price a job When I was architecture, I was trying to get the wholesalers association hearty to embrace a training program that they could make part of their curriculum with contractors to teach them the business side of this. You can come into the business from the briefcase or from the toolbox. I clearly came from the briefcase. The guys that come from the briefcase know there's no way I'm having each factor is without hiring guys with toolbox skills. But the guys that come into the business with just the toolbox skills, they were working for me 25 years ago, making $25 an hour, they saw it charged $150. I'm going to charge $75. I'm not going to rip people off, and I'll make more money I've ever doing in my life. But they're not making sure they have someone with the briefcase skills accompanying them on their journey. And that makes it really hard. It makes it very hard. It was fun. had an opportunity at a meeting once. I had the CEOs of the major manufacturers and the leading wholesalers in the industry and the executive board of academia, a meeting at Laplace, Maryland. We did that. We repeated that exercise and the only ones that got right in the room were the contractors, even the CEOs, the major manufacturers, all sellers couldn't do the math, I think you all know the reciprocal divisor method, which is that simple and and they struggled with it. So how do we expect contractors to know how to do that if we can't show them how to do it ourselves.
Speaker 6Well, we are getting towards the end of the podcast. We had this has already been almost at an hour already. Wow. This is a feel like an hour.
Speaker 2Time flew. It's been a good conversation. I appreciate it.
Speaker 6It's fun. Hey Bobby, just question as you were talking to us as I was wondering, because you're still independent. Yeah, you plan to stay independent and keep witnessing role with your son. You're going to, yeah, yeah, we know.
Speaker 2That's an interesting question. Here's the two schools of thought that go from my mind and having made a decision. One, I could, you know, somewhere to the how my father allowed me to buy him out, you know, basically retire and let my son run the company and pay me with my own company's money and how keep it going. Or find someone who wants to write me a check. And we know those opportunities are far more prevalent these days and they were in the past. One of the things I always have in my mind is ITR economics for a cast, you guess when they were hired to you are. No, you should take a look at them. I met them first. They do a lot of forecasting for hardy, the whole similar association. And they've been projecting for a number of years and their most recent projection is 2030. It's going to be the beginning of a significant downturn in the economy. It's going to last two to be six or seven years before round of it. So they're advising and not shall sell your business for cash to someone you don't like before that. Yeah. You know, if I sell the business to a stranger, I'm not, I'm not in the economy anymore. If I sell the business to my son, I know I'm very much in the economy. But that decision hasn't been made yet, but that's my thought process. Yeah, just like before, it feels very strongly that I should sell it to my son.
Speaker 6I just was curious, I don't know that.
Speaker 5I mean, we all know recessions are inevitable. I think we're pretty positioned in home service these days pretty pretty good we've seen a lot we've learned more I think in the last you know let's call it and probably the last you know let's seven years of how to run a survive through a lot of chaos then we did the previous seven years in this industry I think we're smarter, more equipped, more resilient and construction and home service than people realize we are, right, and equipped to take on challenges due to the grit and the grind that come from growing and working in these businesses. But that's inevitable. I think, you know, nobody knows. I mean, there's a lot of different things. I've read that similar thing. I don't know if it's from them, but I've heard similar. similar stuff right and I got I got caught in the first major recessions. So, you know, I learned a lot. I mean, I got smoked in that that boy. So, you know, I had to reset life. So, you know, I think I think you only know those until you go into them or you have people that have been close to them enough to see them to help navigate that. But I think those helped me and I think the last couple years we've seen.
Speaker 4and navigate through COVID to pricing creases. I don't know anything you can dream up.
Speaker 5I feel like in the last seven years, we've been able to navigate to shortage and work staff to growing building schools now in training facilities. Like all these things we've had to navigate. But I understand, it's one of those decisions. Just sit down and go, what do I want to do? Do you want to keep working or do we want to get an opportunity? to partner up with somebody else to make this pain potential pain less or or have somebody that we can work together with and navigate this, right? It's a hard decision to be made. But the exciting thing is you're in the position and have the option to have that conversation with your son at point and put time, right? So that's, no, absolutely.
Speaker 2There's nothing like family. And there's nothing like family, you know, it's a having family in the business as a curse and a blessing at the same time. Do I do if you guys have family in your business?
Speaker 3Yeah, I work with my brother and then my dad still owns part of the company as well, but he's retired.
Speaker 2Okay. So your dad, you and your brother are partners? God bless you. My dad was the majority owner to the day he died so that we're all the final decisions where we're his, although I greatly influenced him. That's a that's a that's a difficult situation to be with with partners like that. I don't I don't I don't envy you in any way.
Speaker 3Yeah, we've got luck. We've got pretty we've got a pretty darn lucky. That is for sure in the way that honestly that all stimmed from my dad Who somehow some way decided that it would be a good idea to give to 20 somethings a shot and to go chase some wild the idea that they had one day and pretty much for the most part kind of let us go do our thing and so you know I think we got lucky in that respect and then obviously getting to work with my brother now for Oh, I've been in the business for 14. He's been here a couple years after me. So yeah, 10, 12 years, we've worked together. And still have a great relationship. So I count my blessings every day. But that doesn't go without a few squabbles here and there. But I think all in all, we respect each other's talents and how do we best go utilize those to build something really special?
Speaker 2That's good.
Speaker 5I think I don't think it matters to be a family in the business or not. You got people that are passionate. I don't have any family in the business anymore. My sister was in the business early on with me for sure. And we had our back and forth. But it was more beneficial than not early in the business. But I think you even have those squabbles or just debates with people in the business that are passionate with you in the business that are. you know, want to win, want to do want to challenge ideas. I don't think it's inevitably just family. I think family carries on because you got to do stuff later with them. You know, later, you know, you might not, you're out of dinner for family. And now you're talking about it again. Like you kind of get this question. I'm working like, no, why? See you later. I can't you but so I can understand and I can relate to that early in the early days here in the business but I think you want I think you want a little of that because you want people that are passionately debating the business. Oh for sure you know on a regular basis and You know, I start with Mike now in my business who's a partner of business and not overall, we, you know, we align and we have division and we move forward, but do we debate stuff? Yeah, and I think actually, I think at times it's actually healthy that we do because it gives us two different perspectives, right? A little bit to to discuss their in general. So I think those things are good, but at the end of the day, I just tell Mike what we're doing.
Speaker 2Well, you know what, that's that's where I'm getting to it in my business where my team reminds me we got to us, but let's do it and I'm I'm able to do things like work from home today.
Speaker 6Well, it's been I worked with my wife for 17 years so I got I feel like I got you all beat out.
Speaker 2I've been working with my wife for 20 years.
Speaker 6Okay. Thanks for one upper. I'm getting here. I have one thing. Well, listen, Bob, appreciate you killing on here and giving us time and talking to the story. Actually, it was a pretty great conversation today, just in the picture where you're at, now and that, you know, all the mistakes that you can make on a podcast with even phone and stuff on, like you just, you just, you know,
Speaker 2I've done everything a lot of them. Yeah. I silenced this phone when we started. I didn't push the silent button. I just lowered the volume. I'm just interrupted. Sorry. Lusting your balls. Hey, you talking to me? We talking with me.
Speaker 6Yeah. Listen, man, my wife's family's from Jersey. So we go over there often. Like down in South Jersey, like Cherry Hill area. Is.
Speaker 2So what's your favorite part of Jersey?
Speaker 6Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh
Speaker 2I've done podcast before, but not in our industry.
Speaker 6Yeah, absolutely. Well, we're glad to have you on there. And boys out, a good job. Ask questions today. I appreciate you guys. I hope you enjoyed it. And to our listeners, like, you know, a lot of you are probably hoping to be Bobby Sias, you know, one of these days. Like, it's still 12 to our 14 finishes at 12 to 14 million this year in business. That's a great little business. And here he is. Still just doing his VAC just trying to wait till he gets a perfect.
Speaker 2Yeah. Now for a guy, before a guy. Yeah, you guys.
Speaker 6But, you know, to the listeners again, all our job is to bring on guests, talk to their journeys at different sizes. I think we get a good job of that today, and hopefully you're able to take some things away. The one thing you can't do is just talk about it. So we say, don't talk about it. Be about it. So next week, we'll see you.
Speaker 1What's the password?
Speaker 0Don't talk about it. Be about it.